Statement of opinion on Kaiser Hasan's rule in Babkha

[Ari Rahikkala]

Since Erik asked us to write one...

STATEMENT OF OPINION ON KAISER HASAN'S RULE IN BABKHA

0. This statement reflects the majority opinion of the Landsraad, but shall not have the position of law.
0.1. The word "we" in this statement refers to the majority of the the Landsraad.

1. We accept Hasan I as the rightful Kaiser of Shireroth.

2. We accept the position of Hasan I as the Regent of Babkha as legal in Shireroth.

3. Should he be appointed for the position in a way consistent with Babkhan law, we will accept the position of Hasan I as the Shahanshah of Babkha as legal in Shireroth.

Nice and simple, but then again all legal texts are nice and simple before you sic a lawyer on them. I'll put whatever we come up with before the Landsraad once the flames die down .

[Jonas]

Can someone confirm the current Shah approves the idea? Then I will support this.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

I not only approve it, this statement of opinion was what I originally wanted.

[Erik Mortis]

I am appeased.

[Jacobus Loki]

I am appeased.

I'm not.

I accept Erik's opinion as Founder. Yes, I know the Founder has no legal status, but he holds great moral authority. If I were relying on the Arbiter as such, I would have to, well, ask lots of questions and swing the Sword of Madness around my head some more, scream, dash off in a Huff again and make plots. But for me, the Founder has spoken, even though I heartily disagree with his opinion.

The Powers seem to favor this entire misbegotten scheme, although why eludes me. I shall pray for the return to health and enthusiasm of Shah Rashid.

(Another mollifying effect of this is that Babkha is morbid, and may evaporate on its own, making this all moot.)

The deed is done, and I shall have to learn to live with it. May I be proven to be a Chicken Little.

But for the sake of history and right, I urge the Dukes that do not have the courage to vote Nay to at least abstain. Let at least part of the Imperial Government at the very least refrain from approving of this travesty, even though we must live with it.

[Erik Mortis]

But for me, the Founder has spoken,

Oh gods.. not again.




I was voicing my opinion as Duke. Not as Founder or Arbiter. (Keeping all these roles separate gets really confusing)

[Kaiser Hasan I]

I was unaware I had already accepted this. I thought we were still working out an amicable solution. Babkha has named me Regent, but I have yet to still accept or even acknowledge that. The furthest I've gone is replying to a thread which labels me as regent. There is a good deal of opposition to this, and I acknowledge that. But I still haven't gotten some serious answers regarding the questions I've posed beyond "No". So I will list them off again with a few more:

1. Would it be slightly more acceptable to take the throne of Babkha for a period of investigation? Where by if I did anything that would somehow negatively effect Shireroth it could be petitioned?

2. Should this be hereditary if it does happen?

3. Does everyone understand the difference between recognizing me as head of state vs recognizing the throne of the kaiser as head of state? Specifically in the commonwealth model, Countries would potentially recognize the Kaiser as their head of state, where as Babkha would potentially recognize me as their Shah.

4. Would it be acceptable to work out a "statement of trust" whereby I would pledge to maintain certain responsibilities and/or pledge not to commit to certain actions on penalty of abdication if I broke such a trust?

There is also the blindingly obvious to consider:

- Babkha has suffered a complete lack of activity as a result of this whereas Shireroth has gained a significant amount of activity.

- I remain a citizen of Shireroth, NOT Babkha and therefore have not only an obligation to uphold my responsibilities as Kaiser, but also to uphold my responsibilities as a citizen. If I were to do anything contrary to the well being of Shireroth, I would likely be up on charges of treason after losing favor with the gods and thereby losing the throne.

- There is absolutely no loss to Shireroth in this in any conceivable way since there is no merger or union between the two countries. The only aspect of Shireroth or Babkha this effects is me. Not as Kaiser, but me as a member of this community.



Thats my peace. The only thing I ask is that instead of just debating the points I've made, that responses come up with solutions after criticism. And by solutions I mean as side from doing nothing.

[Jacobus Loki]

Relax.

Civil War is the last thing on my mind.

(Oh yeah?)

(YEAH!)

THE VOICES WON'T BE QUIET!! AGGHHH!!

Erik, I was refering to earlier Arbiter findings. I have a lot of trouble with the Arbiter folding the law in half to make something work. It's too much like real politicians, although you(he) did it for me as well, so I shouldn't complain too much.

I have no trouble with the Founder using his moral authority to persuade people to do what is best for Shireroth.

Of course the Duke of Brookshire is always entitled to speak his mind. And the Prophet speaks with the gods.
**************************
Alright. My main problem is the bending of Shirerithian law in half to make something special happen that benefits only one person.

So change the law.

If this is a Let's Rescue Babkha mission, then let's do it up right!

Something to the effect of:

Babkha Assistance (Decree, Act, Whatever)

Activity at whatever level in the Kingdom of Babkha shall not count against any citizen restrictions in the Imperial Republic of Shireroth.

Thus a Shirirthian with 3 citizenships could participate in Babkha (a 4th) without penalty.

Those of us with restrictions of two, one (or none in the case of the Kaiser) would be free to participate in Babkha without endangering our Shirithian status.

That way everybody gets to participate, if they choose to. There is no special case set aside for Hasan. Under this he can be Regent, Shah, Kaiser, Zurvan, King Vitaman, whatever he likes in Babkha.

Any that don't want to, don't have to. We could put a time limit, say expiring in three months unless renewed.

I'm ready to be first in line to get another cool name.

[Erik Mortis]

I didn't bend the law. I point out the conditions and requirments for things to be remotely legal, and even point out that they would be just barely legal. I didn't actually change any law or anything. Simple said how the current situation could be resolved legally. I arbitrated!


And unless I specifically say "I say this as Founder" NEVER assume I am using the "authority" of the founder when making a statement. I'm just a duke and the Arbiter.. nothing more..

[Jess]

riight

[Andreas the Wise]

1. Would it be slightly more acceptable to take the throne of Babkha for a period of investigation? Where by if I did anything that would somehow negatively effect Shireroth it could be petitioned?

I don't mind, personally. The legality has been sorted for me.

2. Should this be hereditary if it does happen?

There are advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is the firm tie to Babkha, avoiding any return to pre Mango-Camel days, and (if it's appropriate to say this about our allies), cementing Shirithian power in another superpower. The disadvantage I instantly see is ... what if, say, I became Kaiser (in the long distant days if I ever gave up Gralus). I don't know that much about Babkha, and I don't think my appropriateness for Kaiser should be decided on my knowledge or ability to be Shah in Babkha. That's the only difficulty I see,

3. Does everyone understand the difference between recognizing me as head of state vs recognizing the throne of the kaiser as head of state? Specifically in the commonwealth model, Countries would potentially recognize the Kaiser as their head of state, where as Babkha would potentially recognize me as their Shah.

Yes, I do understand. And we seem to have confirmed the MCS does too ... so all fine on that front.

4. Would it be acceptable to work out a "statement of trust" whereby I would pledge to maintain certain responsibilities and/or pledge not to commit to certain actions on penalty of abdication if I broke such a trust?

That could be good ... specifically it would detail activity and war, I should think ... can the Shah declare war?

There is also the blindingly obvious to consider:

- Babkha has suffered a complete lack of activity as a result of this whereas Shireroth has gained a significant amount of activity.

- I remain a citizen of Shireroth, NOT Babkha and therefore have not only an obligation to uphold my responsibilities as Kaiser, but also to uphold my responsibilities as a citizen. If I were to do anything contrary to the well being of Shireroth, I would likely be up on charges of treason after losing favor with the gods and thereby losing the throne.

- There is absolutely no loss to Shireroth in this in any conceivable way since there is no merger or union between the two countries. The only aspect of Shireroth or Babkha this effects is me. Not as Kaiser, but me as a member of this community.

Just a comment on the last ... there is the loss of the time you devote to Babkha as potential time you could be in Shireroth Kaisering. But, that being said, you hang around Babkha already anyway, so it probably doesn't actually lose us anything.

That a start? I know I now support you but I was originally a dissenter so I thought my two cents valid.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

The hereditary part's really the one we have to figure out. On the one hand, I'd hate to have this opportunity die with Kaiser Hasan. On the other, there are very, very few people who would be qualified to be both Shah and Kaiser. Erik's probably not acceptable to the Babkhans, and we know he'll eventually be Kaiser again, so that's a problem right there. I'm going to spend tomorrow trying to think of a middle way.

Is the Commonwealth idea that everyone's talking about the one Jacobus proposed? If not, could you link me to the new proposal?

[Erik Mortis]

Yeah. I'm hesitant about heredity because.. well.. I proly couldn't be both at the same time due to time constraints.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Well if time got tight in either Shireroth or Babkha the dual-monarch could appoint a regent to cover whichever area he/she/it has the least time for.

[Jacobus Loki]

(Utterly OOC)

I mean no disparagement to anyone. I've just got a thing about "fairness" that pops up, and micronationally I get to swing a sword over my head rather than write letters to the editor or my congressman.

I think my latest brainstorm, re: excusing Babkha from all Shirithian citizneship restrictions, makes it fair and legal beyond a doubt, without skating "on the edge".

Anybody who wants to participate in Babkha could, no one would have to, and it would be utterly legal and respectable. Babkhan rules would apply in Babkha, and no Shirithian would be forced to go.

Personally, I don't have the time to do all of the things I'd like to in Shireroth. As a gesture of solidarity, I could be a "trader of kevas and trillium" or the like.

(Back in character)

NO! It's all bad enough without making it Heriditary! Shireroth for the Shirirthians! Onward through the fog! Follow me to Chaos!

(Trips pulling his sword out of the scabbard, slides to the polished stone floor. Pats clothing, pulls a flask from his cloak.)

Ahhh, the good stuff!!

(Takes a long drink, wipes mouth with a kerchief.)

(Belches loudly, Chin falls to chest.)

(Loud snorring.)

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Ok, So.

- Lets review the Citizenship laws by bringing a proposed draft to the Landsraad

- I'll write out a declaration of will and intent regarding the issue of the Babkhan Throne including the option of hereditary succession with the provision of a Regent when warranted based on the will of the people and according to the needs of the Monarch. When its drafted I'll pass it to the Steward so he may present it to the Landsraad and discuss it among themselves.

- When and if both of these are deemed acceptable, I will proclaim two decrees making them law.

[Erik Mortis]

Well if time got tight in either Shireroth or Babkha the dual-monarch could appoint a regent to cover whichever area he/she/it has the least time for.

Hmm. that is partly what we have the Steward for...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Yes, in Shireroth, the Stewart is defacto Regent and Head of Government. However in Babkha, The head of Government is an elected position and the Recency is an appointment. But none the less, if a future Kaiser did not feel comfortable with leading Babkha, they could appoint a Regent there.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

based on the will of the people

Democracy! Burn it!

[Jonas]

based on the will of the people

Democracy! Burn it!

I'm sure it is a joke!
Isn't it, Your Niftiness?

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Doesn't anyone else find it ironic that when I assert my power, people protest. And yet when I make a statement which includes other people's opinions I'm accused of being a democrat.

[Andreas the Wise]

And when Erik tried to unassert his power people protested too ... guess you can't keep Shirithians happy ...

[Erik Mortis]

No.. we just have a messed up sense of power and authority...

[Jacobus Loki]

True enough. In any system, when power in not excercised, it creates a vacuum, which is either filled or leads to destruction.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

I will endevour to note that when the economy is launched and your bank account rises. Perhaps a special "Loyalty Tax" :P

[Jacobus Loki]

Perhaps a special "Loyalty Tax"