Reapplying: CJ Miller
Moderator: Edgard
Reapplying: CJ Miller
Legal name: CJ Miller
Age: 15
Contact: MSN: missingno000@gmail.com; Email: see MSN; Skype: Ketsuban1
Citizenship: Citizen of Hamland and citizen of Kanto
--
Background information: I live in Florida (EST). I am a fan of Half-Life 2, System Shock 2, Team Fortess 2, Halo 3 (you thought I would put Halo 2 wouldn't you?), Burnout Paradise, Project Gotham Racing 4, TNA Wrestling, and Pokémon.
Preferred duchy of residence: Straylight
Other:
Age: 15
Contact: MSN: missingno000@gmail.com; Email: see MSN; Skype: Ketsuban1
Citizenship: Citizen of Hamland and citizen of Kanto
--
Background information: I live in Florida (EST). I am a fan of Half-Life 2, System Shock 2, Team Fortess 2, Halo 3 (you thought I would put Halo 2 wouldn't you?), Burnout Paradise, Project Gotham Racing 4, TNA Wrestling, and Pokémon.
Preferred duchy of residence: Straylight
Other:
- Kaiser Mors VI
- Posts: 840
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:40 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Your Niftiness:
Can you change my duchy to Straylight?
Thank you.
Can you change my duchy to Straylight?
Thank you.
- Kaiser Mors VI
- Posts: 840
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:40 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
I'll just wait till after the new system goes into play before changing colors and stuff.
Kaiser Mors VI,
Head of House Mortis.
Head of House Mortis.
- Kaiser Mors VI
- Posts: 840
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:40 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Okey. so my comment here was just approving that forms were obeyed, not approving this app. We have a minister for that.
However, after consultation with others, and various information coming to light. I'm not sure I would approve of having CJMiller as a citizen of Shireroth. While normally we auto-approve applications. I believe the Minister should mark this application PENDING, until CJMiller can be interviewed/questioned concerning some questionable remarks.
However, after consultation with others, and various information coming to light. I'm not sure I would approve of having CJMiller as a citizen of Shireroth. While normally we auto-approve applications. I believe the Minister should mark this application PENDING, until CJMiller can be interviewed/questioned concerning some questionable remarks.
Kaiser Mors VI,
Head of House Mortis.
Head of House Mortis.
- Falkner van der Sluijs
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:12 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
What's wrong with him? The guy likes Pokemon, Pokemon is awesome!
Dutch of Kildare
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
- Malliki Tosha
- Posts: 2516
- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:43 am
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
How about being a bigotted racist and general fucktard?
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
- Falkner van der Sluijs
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:12 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
I am those things often, and you tolerate me sometimes.
Dutch of Kildare
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
- Malliki Tosha
- Posts: 2516
- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:43 am
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Srsly, there's no comparison.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
This.Falkner van der Sluijs wrote:What's wrong with him? The guy likes Pokemon, Pokemon is awesome!
Your point is?Malliki Tosha wrote:How about being a bigotted racist and general fucktard?
- Kaiser Mors VI
- Posts: 840
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:40 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Those things are not good things. They lead to nothing but trouble. And it's as good a reason to deny citizenship as any. It's rare that a nation denies citizenship to anyone. But honestly, under my reign, I could not in good conscious let this pass. There are consequences to ignorance and bigotry. You have now started to feel them, and will continue to feel them through out life.
I didn't come to my decisions lightly, and several people presented the issue to me. Though to be completely honest, you kinda annoyed me from the start. I wanted to give you a chance, but considering the nature and number of people speaking out against you, and their resolute words on the matter. It is not an element I wish to promote in Shireroth. And I do hope you can grow out of it.
There were also some legal issues, though we can't really prove one way or the other. So it didn't help you case.
I didn't come to my decisions lightly, and several people presented the issue to me. Though to be completely honest, you kinda annoyed me from the start. I wanted to give you a chance, but considering the nature and number of people speaking out against you, and their resolute words on the matter. It is not an element I wish to promote in Shireroth. And I do hope you can grow out of it.
There were also some legal issues, though we can't really prove one way or the other. So it didn't help you case.
Kaiser Mors VI,
Head of House Mortis.
Head of House Mortis.
- Falkner van der Sluijs
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:12 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Then prepare for trouble!Kaiser Mors VI wrote:They lead to nothing but trouble.
(CJ, BACK ME UP!)
Dutch of Kildare
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
- Kaiser Mors VI
- Posts: 840
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:40 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Huh? Just to be clear, this has nothing to do with Pokemon, Corey. You might honestly be better served in your interests in not looking to give, or to gain, support from Miller.
Kaiser Mors VI,
Head of House Mortis.
Head of House Mortis.
- Malliki Tosha
- Posts: 2516
- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:43 am
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Yes. There are things that can be done if support is given too.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
- Falkner van der Sluijs
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:12 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Hey, I'm just trying to have a little bit of fun here, regardless of who supports who.
For the record, I was going for something along the lines of Miller and I doing this
(i.e. My whole point of posting in this thread has to do with pokemon, yes)
For the record, I was going for something along the lines of Miller and I doing this
(i.e. My whole point of posting in this thread has to do with pokemon, yes)
Dutch of Kildare
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
*has been standing in line at the MiniImNat for a week and his legs are about to give out*
- Scott of Hyperborea
- Posts: 2816
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:17 pm
- Location: Ireland
- Contact:
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Having seen the chat involved, it looked to me like CJ was more doing the general Internet thing of assenting to any mildly controversial statements in order to cause trouble than actually being racist, and that the trouble was more that a whole bunch of people dogpiled on him and called him awful names for being autistic, then decided to hate him when he complained.
- Falkner van der Sluijs
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:12 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
This sounds...familiar, actually...
EDIT: oh wait, I remember now. This sounds like what happened to me constantly but everyone denied it happening
EDIT: oh wait, I remember now. This sounds like what happened to me constantly but everyone denied it happening
Dutch of Kildare
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
This indeed is what happened.Scott of Hyperborea wrote:Having seen the chat involved, it looked to me like CJ was more doing the general Internet thing of assenting to any mildly controversial statements in order to cause trouble than actually being racist, and that the trouble was more that a whole bunch of people dogpiled on him and called him awful names for being autistic, then decided to hate him when he complained.
- Malliki Tosha
- Posts: 2516
- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:43 am
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Scott, stay the fuck out of it. Do you consider flat out racist remarks to be "mildly controversial" after we triple checked, you need to get your head examined.
I'm done with this shit, I'm taking this to Erik, officially.
I'm done with this shit, I'm taking this to Erik, officially.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
- Kaiser Mors VI
- Posts: 840
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:40 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Right. Someone give a copy of the chat in question. I was honestly trusting my sources cause I have a lot of things to do lately, along with RL stuff. But I think it's to the point I need to personally investigate the matter.
(Delegation is useful to a point.)
(Delegation is useful to a point.)
Kaiser Mors VI,
Head of House Mortis.
Head of House Mortis.
- Scott of Hyperborea
- Posts: 2816
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:17 pm
- Location: Ireland
- Contact:
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Malliki, this is Shireroth. We don't solve problems with yelling and insults. We solve problems by talking it out like adults, or by starting a rebellion, or by ragequitting and then coming back two days later, or by blaming them on Erik, or...the point is, we don't start yelling at each other and making stuff worse.Scott, stay the fuck out of it. Do you consider flat out racist remarks to be "mildly controversial" after we triple checked, you need to get your head examined.
Yeah, CJ said on the chat something along the lines of "All Arabs are terrorists and should die." Sure. He also said in the same conversation "Obama's name is too close to Osama, so = terrorist." He said all black people who act gangster or ghetto should be killed, but SHINE has him on record as saying he loves rap and that his favorite musician is 50 Cent. He's said "all gay people should die", but only on the same survey where he lists his weight as 375 pounds at age 15. One begins to get the feeling one maybe should not take everything he says entirely literally?
In fact, I ran a full SHINE check on his political opinions. He supports the Republicans in the US, and at various times has backed the Liberal Democrats and the UKIP in Britain. His political compass results (obtained at enormous expense) list him as Economic Left/Right: -1.25 and Social Authoritarian/Liberal: -0.26, which would place him as mildly liberal. He's condemned the British National Party as "worse than Hitler" and doesn't show any unusual signs of being fascist.
We also need to consider the context - this is the same chat where Hesam said of (I think it was) Kurds "They're like italians, only they don't look like animals and don't behave like animals. oh, and also, Italians are god damned animals. no, I mean really. They shit while they walk and don't disregard their own waste". I don't think Hesam is racist, but let's just say it's not exactly the NAACP in #micronations. My guess is that CJMiller thought that casual racism was what it took to get accepted.
All in all, I'd say he's a 15 year old with confused but generally libertarian political opinions who thinks it's funny to say scandalous trolling things and thought #micronations was the place for it. To paraphrase Red Dwarf, "The defendant is not guilty of racism. He is guilty only of being CJ Miller. That is his crime. It is also his punishment. The defense rests."
Now, let's move on to what else happened in the chat room (edited to change flow and remove unrelated):
<hesam> CJMiller, are you mildly retarded? Really? I mean, honestly, you could tell me
<cjmiller> Hesam: Yes, I'm pretty sure I told this channel before that I have Asperger's syndrome.
<hesam> same thing
<harvey> Hesam: he's like 8
<cjmiller> And I'm 15 dammit.
<harvey> Oh.
<harvey> Well okay, back to defaulting to retarded.
<hesam> so Asperger's is some type of retard disease? (he waits pensively for the explosion to follow)
<cjmiller> Asperger's is a form of autism.
<malliki> That is, retardism.
<hesam> Just because no one likes you doesn't mean you have a brain deficiency. It means no one fucking likes you because you act like an idiot.
<***cjmiller smacks Hesam***>
<cjmiller> You're just being dumbass elitists.
<malliki> I know some people with Assburgers. Some of them use it as an excuse to be idiots.
<cjmiller> Oh, so now I'm an idiot?
...
<cjmiller> You refuse to admit that I am as much a person as anyone else here.
<malliki> CJMiller: You're not a person.
<hesam> actually, I refuse to admit you're a person
<hesam> Sorry Miller, We all have a mutual contract whereby we throw rocks at retarded kids. We can't break contract.
I'm going to come out and say that this sort of taunting of kids with mental disorders as "retards" is exactly as shameful as calling a black guy n****r, and that Malliki et al should be ashamed of themselves. I'd have no problem with it if I thought it was meant to be funny, or if it was someone who could deal with it, but Miller didn't think it was funny and clearly wasn't up to dealing with it at all, so it's very much not funny. I've seen one friend with Aspergers attempt suicide because of online taunting, and I have no interest in seeing another.
- Malliki Tosha
- Posts: 2516
- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:43 am
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
CJ deserved it. Using that you allegedly have Asperger's as an excuse to act like a complete idiot is not exactly what I consider good behavior. I refuse to allow a person who wasn't even there to take some sort of moral highground. Scott, you have many good qualities, but your tendency to always side with the idiots isn't one of them.
I don't like to do this, but if CJ is given Shirerithian citizenship, don't expect me to be active at all here. I have RL friends with Asperger's and it is definitely not an excuse to be a racist.
I don't like to do this, but if CJ is given Shirerithian citizenship, don't expect me to be active at all here. I have RL friends with Asperger's and it is definitely not an excuse to be a racist.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
- Falkner van der Sluijs
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:12 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
My gods, you guys are cruel >:C
Dutch of Kildare
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
Jarl in Asantelian
Steward of Shireroth
Swnndyrrr Ytteirsal
Perennial Ghoti
- Jacobus Loki
- Posts: 4205
- Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:00 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
My nephew in RL has Aspbergers (no, Miller isn't him). He (my nephew) says a lot of stupid things, but a flash of brilliance comes out occasionally as well.
If we are going to exile people for saying dumb, unpopular things, Shireroth would be a vacant lot in less than a year.
I say let him in. If he does something monstrously evil, evil beyond the pale of a Babkhan on hashish with an Uzi and a machete, then we can grind him into mulch for Malarbor. It is Shirirthian to give people a chance to show who they are, within Shireroth.
If we are going to exile people for saying dumb, unpopular things, Shireroth would be a vacant lot in less than a year.
I say let him in. If he does something monstrously evil, evil beyond the pale of a Babkhan on hashish with an Uzi and a machete, then we can grind him into mulch for Malarbor. It is Shirirthian to give people a chance to show who they are, within Shireroth.
Jacobus Loki
Shireroth sumus. Tempus in parte nostrum est.
Lord of Hallucination, Protector of Illumination, MiniEx of Shireroth, Traditional King of the Mala'anje.
Shireroth sumus. Tempus in parte nostrum est.
Lord of Hallucination, Protector of Illumination, MiniEx of Shireroth, Traditional King of the Mala'anje.
- Aurangzeb Khan
- Posts: 3251
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:22 pm
- Location: The Citadel, Ardashirshahr
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
Oh, I have nothing in particular against him, but deport him to Ocia anyway - it would pay for itself in comedy gold.
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
So? Why should you react in the same way?CJ deserved it. Using that you allegedly have Asperger's as an excuse to act like a complete idiot is not exactly what I consider good behavior.
I'm rather shocked by what was written down there (not only by CJ but also by others, who the most of us consider as 'grown up').
Your Niftiness, let him in. Or you could decide to throw Mike and other out of the country with Miller. As I'm, just like some others, not very happy with the reactions. And I furthermore agree with Jake's statement.
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy!
Can't you see? I'm crazy!
- Aurangzeb Khan
- Posts: 3251
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:22 pm
- Location: The Citadel, Ardashirshahr
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
So I take it this boils down to the fact that CJ used the name of Guy Gibson's dog in an inappropriate context? If so, yawn.
- Malliki Tosha
- Posts: 2516
- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:43 am
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
I love it how people that weren't even in the channel comes to his support.
I meant what I said elsewhere. If CJMiller is let in as a citizen, I'm leaving. I know that Harvey proly feels the same way.
I meant what I said elsewhere. If CJMiller is let in as a citizen, I'm leaving. I know that Harvey proly feels the same way.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC
- Kaiser Mors VI
- Posts: 840
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:40 pm
Re: Reapplying: CJ Miller
*sigh*
Bill has Aspergers if I recall correctly. Guy annoys me to no end. The fact that Mike and Harvey are this adamant about CJ makes think there is truth to the accusations but I do trust Scott's judgment on many things. Scott does have a habit at time though to support the "underdog" blindly.
I was supporting Mike's view previously. But now I'm on the fence on the matter.
I need proof. I've seen a bit of chat log where he's mocked and attacked in a VERY dishonorable and questionable manner. I can't say I take pride in the behavior of others in that bit of chat log. Now maybe there was behavior that prompted their response to CJ. I have honestly yet to be shown it.
Now, I do believe Mike and Harvey when they try to force my hand with their threats of inactivity. And I'm not happy with the position I'm being put into. If they are willing to commit to such acts, maybe their views have credence. Or maybe they are simply acting as bullies.
I want proof! Not hearsay. If I am not presented with unedited chat-logs, or personal admissions or some other evidence, I will permit CJ in. I will error on the side of caution and admit CJ as a Minor under Shireroth Law (old regulation, but it makes sense in this context), with a Minority period of about a month. If he proves the others correct, I will consent and revoke his citizenship. If he proves himself just as anyone else, he will be granted full citizen status, and welcomed into the nation.
But I want proof. If Mike and others can't prove their case is more then bullying and personal dislike, I will act accordingly. I will treat this as a court case, a hearing. Something I believe Mike can appreciate. Shireroth is not a social club. We have a government, law and systems to handle things. I will handle this as a Kaiser.
Bill has Aspergers if I recall correctly. Guy annoys me to no end. The fact that Mike and Harvey are this adamant about CJ makes think there is truth to the accusations but I do trust Scott's judgment on many things. Scott does have a habit at time though to support the "underdog" blindly.
I was supporting Mike's view previously. But now I'm on the fence on the matter.
I need proof. I've seen a bit of chat log where he's mocked and attacked in a VERY dishonorable and questionable manner. I can't say I take pride in the behavior of others in that bit of chat log. Now maybe there was behavior that prompted their response to CJ. I have honestly yet to be shown it.
Now, I do believe Mike and Harvey when they try to force my hand with their threats of inactivity. And I'm not happy with the position I'm being put into. If they are willing to commit to such acts, maybe their views have credence. Or maybe they are simply acting as bullies.
I want proof! Not hearsay. If I am not presented with unedited chat-logs, or personal admissions or some other evidence, I will permit CJ in. I will error on the side of caution and admit CJ as a Minor under Shireroth Law (old regulation, but it makes sense in this context), with a Minority period of about a month. If he proves the others correct, I will consent and revoke his citizenship. If he proves himself just as anyone else, he will be granted full citizen status, and welcomed into the nation.
But I want proof. If Mike and others can't prove their case is more then bullying and personal dislike, I will act accordingly. I will treat this as a court case, a hearing. Something I believe Mike can appreciate. Shireroth is not a social club. We have a government, law and systems to handle things. I will handle this as a Kaiser.
Kaiser Mors VI,
Head of House Mortis.
Head of House Mortis.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests