Shireroth

The Kaiser has instructed the Landsraad to deal with the Amendments to the Charter.

So, here are my arguments for their removal and what to do with them.

Both should be removed from the Charter because they specify unnecessary detail to a document that outline the basic structure of the government. They are no different in caliber from the content of the Decreebook and Lawbook. As they outline specifics about the functioning of the government, by placing them in the Charter they are more difficult to change or edit when the need or desire arise. Both are also poorly written and hard to interpret in light of the rest of the Charter.

On the matter of the Equality amendment: Firstly it removty of the Landsraad to experiment with voting procedures. While Shireroth has traditionally used the 1 vote system as a default, we have also used many other system when we have found it amusing or necessary to experiment. The equality Amendment unnecessarily complicates and restricts the powers of the Landsraad to create and maintain its own voting procedures. The stipulation of the Kaiser's involvement in violating equality means that the Landsraad must seek the Kaiser's approval of alternate voting procedures, this creates an implied violation of the Charter by the Kaiser, who is then forced to interfere with the Landsraad ability to create and maintain its own procedures. The Kaiser will be forced to violate the charter in order to allow the Landsraad to have the power granted by the Charter to set its own rules. This Amendment creates a paradox.
Further, the awkward wording of the Amendment makes it difficult to properly interpret and apply to the nation as a whole, outside of its implications to the voting procedures of the Landsraad.

On the matter of the "right" to counsel, this once again removes from the Landsraad the power to specify the operation of the Judex system, as outlined previously in the Charter. It grants a specific Right to citizens without protecting any other Rights, which sets a dangerous precedent to the creation of a Bill of Rights, which would severely weaken the Kaiser, Nobles, Landsraad and security and peace of mind of this nation.
Further, the council amendment is so poorly written to possibly be self contradicting and negating. As a Former Arbiter, I honestly would have no idea what to do with the amendment as it is worded. The "without restriction" phrase makes the clause difficult to interpret and may even defeat the intended outcome of the author.

It is my recommendation that the Landsraad passes the following resolution:

It is the desire of the Landsraad, comprised of the Dukes assembled, to recommend to the Kaiser that the following two clauses be stricken from Article IV of the Charter:

Section B: Right to Counsel
No one shall be deprived of counsel of zir choice without restriction in any legal proceeding in Shireroth.

Section C: Equality of Dukes and Duchies
All Dukes and Duchies are equal under the Kaiser. No Duke or Duchy shall be deprived of it's equality without the consent of the Kaiser, the Duke of the Duchy concerned, and the Landsraad.

Should the Kaiser agree to grant this request, the Landsraad hereby orders the Praetor, as an Officer of the Landsraad, to grant approval to the Kaiser to amend the Charter as specified.

If the Kaiser wishes, the Landsraad assents to the notion of placing Section B within the Decreebook or Lawbook, or to place one or both of the clauses into the jurisdiction of the Landsraad to vote upon as two separate bills, and put into the Lawbook or Procedures of the Landsraad, as would apply.

Keeping the Charter sacrosanct could very well restrict the growth of the nation.

Imagine a tribe of near-humans in a time long ago.

Og:

I bring FIRE, and the Pointed Stick. Tigers do not like fire. People can use fire to cook more food. Pointed stick can keep tiger away. Many pointed sticks kill tiger, instead of tiger kill us. Cook and eat tiger, instead of tiger eat us.

Bog:

We have always gone to sleep when big light go away. Fire keep people awake. We have always been afraid of tiger, we should stay afraid always. Pointed stick sharp, dangerous. Fire burn. Burn hurt. Pointed stick bad. Fire bad. People eat raw food always, run away from tiger always, go to sleep when dark. Bog made these rules when people first come to cave, always be this way always. Bog says so.

Changing the rules is the way civilization progresses. The above example is deeply tongue-in-cheek, but as my best friend says, "the essence of humor is truth".

Jake, you do get the bit that these things can still go in the Lawbook, just not the charter? I appreciate that you're smart enough you don't need an analogy using laws and the Constitution.

I get it. I get it.

I'm just difficult.

"I'm tired of being so bloody serious. I'll be a little surrealistic for a while," he said to no one in particular as he levitated past the open manhole. Muttering inconsistencies, he faded from sight.

Jake, your argument actually kinda backs up mine. It's for the reason of making it so we can change and grow over time that I believe these should not be in the Charter, and that my proposal, which I hope a duke puts before the Landsraad(HINT), asked for them to be put before the Landsraad to put in a lower document.

Obstructionism for it's own sake can be fun, but Shireroth deserves better. If Jonas remains and is confirmed Praetor, I will support the proposal.

Jonas' remaining somewhat has to do with if he complies with the Landsraad.

Of course, you could remove your name from nomination, thus rendering the situation effectively moot.

Maybe Mike and Jonas could swap jobs?

Gods help us all!

If Jonas supports these amendments, then how can we then say no to the question if he's going to keep the praetorial chair warm? He has after all served the Landsraad and the Empire for a very long time.

Section C: Equality of Dukes and Duchies
All Dukes and Duchies are equal under the Kaiser. No Duke or Duchy shall be deprived of it's equality without the consent of the Kaiser, the Duke of the Duchy concerned, and the Landsraad.

What possible reason could there be for deleting this clause? Admittedly it kinds of goes without saying, but it says a lot about the democracy here that even the Duchy which contains the Kaiserial seat- Shirekeep- is just as equal as, say, Yardistan or Kildare.
That's an important distinction to make- you never can tell what some clever gits will get up to if they find any Constitutional leapholes... unless somewhere else in Shirereithan law declares Duchy equality, then there's no reason why Section C should be deleted.

Maksym Hadjimehmetov wrote:...but it says a lot about the democracy here...

Even more reason to remove it! If it goes without saying, it shouldn't be in the Charter. If it's democracy.. it doesn't belong in Shireroth. If you want it, add it to the Lawbook. The Charter shouldn't have trivial matters like "Rights" in it, especially if it restricts the powers of the Landsraad to create whatever voting system they desire.

Might I remind the Landsraad that they have 19 days to act upon ID345.

Frankly, I think some of these 'obvious' clauses are useful in the Charter, Erik.
The Landsraad should be bound by certain historial traditions, and keeping the Baronies on an equal footing is one of them.
We mustn't forget the fact that we're the Imperial Republic of Shireroth, and that the fact that Shirekeep- the Kaiserial seat- is in a Duchy which has total equality with any other is a noble and just thing.
But hey. What do I know?

No.. not republic. We must remember we are in an EMPIRE. This is an empire. Not a republic.

But once again, why should we bind the system in stone with trivial details? This isn't the constitution of Brazil, where we put every last little detail. This is the Imperial Charter, with the basic outline of government.

Erik Mortis wrote:No.. not republic. We must remember we are in an EMPIRE. This is an empire. Not a republic.

Hmm. I really don't want to get into semantics or anything, but the banner says we're an Imperial Republic. Which is to say, a republic of an Empire. An Empire, yes. A republic, somewhat. Right?

Just a name... We put the "republic" in there for .... it looked good? We justify it by pointing at the Landsraad and say it's.. republic... ish.

We are an Empire. We must never forget that lest we go down the evil road of....democracy...