Shireroth

http://shireroth.kuroshiro.net/forum/vi ... f=5&t=9767

I accept the nomination.

Jonas, why did you have to go and do something stupid before you could make your name as the longest reigning Praetor?

In case anyone cares/wonders, I never sought this nor asked for it. (though I prepared for it)

If the Landsraad does remove Jonas, I would support his eventual reinstatement at a later date. So he could at least be the longest, non-continuous serving Praetor.

Doesn't the charter say all the nobles of the land elect the praetor? Then that means the dukes AND barons elect him?

The Prætor of Shireroth may only be elected by the nobility of the land, from among the Full-Citizens of the Land. The Prætor does not have to be a Noble of Shireroth. The Kaiser shall manage the election of the Prætor by the Landsraad

The Charter most clearly says that the Landsraad elects the Prætor...

Kaiser Reynardine I wrote:

The Prætor of Shireroth may only be elected by the nobility of the land, from among the Full-Citizens of the Land. The Prætor does not have to be a Noble of Shireroth. The Kaiser shall manage the election of the Prætor by the Landsraad

The Charter most clearly says that the Landsraad elects the Prætor...

If I'm not mistaken, a baron is a noble.

Note "may" and note the next line, which says

election of the Prætor by the Landsraad

Barons are not in the Landsraad, so they have no place in the election process.

Kaiser Reynardine I wrote:Note "may" and note the next line, which says

election of the Prætor by the Landsraad

Barons are not in the Landsraad, so they have no place in the election process.

But that sentence in the charter contradicts itself, Arbiter want to say something about this?

The Kaiser is correct. The Landsraad elects the Praetor, that is, the Dukes. If you want to influence the vote, talk to your Duke.

No, I definitely remember there being something odd about the Praetor election (ie not just the Landsraad). Didn't there used to be some loophole where the non-ruling nobles could also vote? Or something? Erik, you remember what m talking about?

Scott, could that be from before when the Barons were represented in the Landsraad?

Don't you need to get removed first, before electing a new Praetor?

Jonas, why did you have to go and do something stupid before you could make your name as the longest reigning Praetor?

Stupid? I'm not a puppet of the Dukes, you know. I made clear I was willing to accept changes to the charter. I never got any proposals, I only saw discussions but never got an amendment of the Kaiser.
Nobody asked me to sign a charter in which the amendments were omitted. Why? Because everyone thought I can't change my mind? If I see the 'support' of doing those amendments away, I could have changed my mind. Maybe...


It's all a plot! This was a plot between Mike and Erik to make Erik Praetor!! Aaahhh!! Run!

There is no provision regarding the removal of the Praetor, only the election of one. I could argue that you're no longer Praetor because the Landsraad was dissolved. Anyway, if Erik wins the support of the Landsraad, he will replace you. Also, calling a legitimate attempt to remove you a plot makes me even more convinced that you should be replaced.

Like I said. I never told anyone to try to make me Praetor, or such. When asked about it, before this, I made no comment.

Oddly Scott... I kinda do recall something along the lines of what you speak... but that was under a different Landsraad setup, when we HAD nobles by marriage and barons in the Landsraad.

Honestly, as the Barons aren't in the Landsraad, they shouldn't get a say.

Also, I oddly remember something about only Dukes voting, even when we had barons..

We've done to many weird things.

A plot!!

I could argue that you're no longer Praetor because the Landsraad was dissolved.

Since when is our beloved Arbiter guessing? Weren't you complaining about the danger of possible different interpretations by the amendments? There is no law or decree about this, until then I'm still the legal Praetor.

Erik Mortis wrote:Like I said. I never told anyone to try to make me Praetor, or such. When asked about it, before this, I made no comment.

I know Erik. No hard feelings.

I said that I could. Not that I am, but I could. The argument would be that you can't be Praetor over something that isn't in session, and that your Praetorship ended when the Landsraad was dismissed. I'm not arguing that, but I could. If Erik or Corey would approve is another question.

It doesn't end, at least it never has in the past.

...But should it? *ponders adding that to the Charter*

Having the Praetor dismissed with the Landsraad would prevent the Kaiser from edited the Charter when it's impossible for the Landsraad to remove a Praetor. Hell, it would keep the Kaiser from being able to amend the Charter at all without a Landsraad in session. ...I like it.

No Jonas, you are safe at the moment with the Landsraad dismissed. But I do plan to change that in the Charter under my Kaisership, for the security of the Landsraad. (I don't plan to dismiss the Landsraad under my rule).

But I do plan to change that in the Charter under my Kaisership.....

Assumptions. Jess for Kaiser! (sometime after our Beloved Reynardine, of course).

I urge the Landsraad to retain Praetor Jonas. If Shireroth is to prosper, Our Beloved Founder needs to here the word "No" occasionally.

Gently, respectfully, but "no".

Occasionally.

I've heard No plenty...

but I had nothing to do with the Praetor thing.. so it's not me you are saying No to.

Playing my part. My gods it gets old....

Then do something else. Let us fix this charter, and let me go back into barely active status.

Erik Mortis wrote:I've heard No plenty...

Heard, yes.

If he hadn't accepted "no" from me, Jake's amendments would already be gone. We would have had another Raynor, even.

No to what?

You've pressured me on a lot of issues in private discussion. Mostly because of the Charter actually.

Yep.. and you haven't instantly folded, but not in a stubborn unthinking kinda way, more in a logical and reasonable sorta way. I'm proud.

Long Live the Kaiser!

Indeed.

BTW: I encourage someone to take my place on a ballot. If a suitable alternative comes along, I'll support them in my stead. There was a valid argument made in Elywnn by Ric about me as Praetor. I'll be Kaiser soon enough, so we'd need to elect a new Praetor in up to 3 months.