Shireroth

By my hand,

1. The Landsraad is hereby called back to order.
2. The Landsraad shall present an amendment to the Charter that is approved by unanimous vote of the Landsraad, the Prætor, and the Arbiter. This amendment shall be implemented pending approval by the Kaiser.
   
   1. If the Landsraad, the Prætor, and the Arbiter vote unanimously that no Amendment is needed, then the Landsraad shall be dismissed.
   2. If the Landsraad, the Prætor, and the Arbiter cannot come to a unanimous decision on an Amendment within 30 years ASC, then the Landsraad shall be dismissed.

Done this Homersday, the 24th of H'Graasreign, ASC 3419

Reynardine I, the Fox Kaiser

Your Niftiness. Let it be very clear that I will never support an amendment in which is stated that to pass amendments of the Charter, you don't need only the support of the Praetor and Kaiser but also of the Arbiter (as proposed in Erik's draft).

Again, I'm leaving it to the Landsraad to fix the current problems as they will. Have whatever demands you like.

Odd move.

Seems a good move to me, (Korey's, not Jonas')

It takes the burden off off the Kaiser to deal with this. Not sure I like the fact the Landsraad is being given "power" over the Charter.

It's not being given power over it. I don't want to be directly responsible for removal of Loki III's amendments, since I told him I wouldn't remove them. But if the Landsraad presents me with an acceptable new charter that I approve of, I will decree it.

I honestly would advice the Landraad to simply address the Amendments and leave the rest for a later Kaiser.. (ie, ME! )

I would advise the same, actually. I just want things to go back to normal so I can have a nice, peaceful rest of my reign...

Andreas the Wise wrote:Seems a good move to me, (Korey's, not Jonas')

It's something I wanted to make clear from the beginning. A good move or not, I will not change my mind about that.

Jonas, I dislike your reservations. That combined with your support of the amendments is why I want a new Praetor.

*Gives Jonas a hug*

*Group hug*

I know I might have been harsh these past couple of days. That was not my intention Jonas. Please, don't see my opposition to you as Prætor as opposition to you as a person. Kildare is lucky to have you as Dutch.

Jonas, I dislike your reservations. That combined with your support of the amendments is why I want a new Praetor.

In fact, you dislike my opinion about these matters but the same time you accuse me of playing a puppet of the kaiser by supporting the amendments.


MIKE ENEMY! DESTROY MIKE! BOO/\/\!

I hope that I don't need to remember the people that with Erik's draft (three persons that need to approve changes to the charter) you make the nation extremly vulnerable. I will not change my opinion about that because my job is in danger.















*Gives Erik a hug*


*Gives Mike a hug*

I'm not sure I approve or disapprove of Erik's proposal, but I would consider such a move to be good for the nation. It would remove frivolous amendments to the Charter (hopefully) and make sure (hopefully) that only the most essential rules go into the Charter.

I don't see how it makes the nation vulnerable Jonas. If anything it makes the Charter more secure. The nation itself operates basically the same.

Erik Mortis wrote:I don't see how it makes the nation vulnerable Jonas. If anything it makes the Charter more secure. The nation itself operates basically the same.

You make it very hard to suspend the Charter when needed. Do I need to remember you of Mors V? Not to forget that you are changing traditions and old rules!

The Charter can't (legally) be suspended.

Mike Fors wrote:The Charter can't (legally) be suspended.

Oh really? It was suspended and Shireroth was saved again.

Hail Kaiser Mors V! Long may Kaiser Reynardine I live in war and chaos!

No, it can't be dissolved or removed. Suspension is an entirely different matter.

Explain to me the difference between dissolution and suspension. As I see it, they are the same.

Suspension is temporary, dissolution is permenant.

And illegal. Yes. I broke the rules because it made life easier for everyone.

But it's not required to do what I did. The reason I needed to do it was something about a lack nobles and a dead Landsraad. I could have run the nation by myself but I wanted the Landsraad, so I suspended the charter (no legal procedure exists for it, so I treated it like an Amendment) so I could, as Kaiser, rebuild the Landsraad. I considered it a one time thing that should never be needed again.

Suspension should never be considered a viable option, I was even hesitant to do it, but I needed around the Landsraad non-interference clause. Even if we have just the Kaiser it is possible do what I did within the bounds of the Charter.

Step 1. Dismiss all nobles.
Step 2. If not already, make myself a noble.
Step 3. Fill in other Noble seats if you can
Step 4. If there is a Praetor get him active. If not, get one. If the Kaiser is all there is.. why bother with the Landsraad at all?
Step 5. Put forth, and get passed basic Landsraad procedures to enact 1 duke-1 vote system.

Without suspending the Charter I could do all the things I needed to do, just slower.
I was impatient at the time, and wasn't sure if I was gonna stick around. So I shortened the deal.

Step 1. Suspend the Charter with Praetor approval (questionable legality)
Step 2. Rebuild the Landsraad via decree. (new rules, new nobles..etc)
Step 3. Put the Charter back. (I forgot to do this part)
Step 4. Landsraad makes new legal procedures, not created by the Kaiser. (optional)


Jonas, I know what I'm doing with the Charter, I've been the Author of it from the very start. Trust me when I say, I am NOT making Shireroth vulnerable. The fact that I could pull off a Suspension is a sign of vulnerability.

I think it's very clear we can't mess with the Charter. Like you said in Yardistan: you say a lot of things, so I wouldn't know why I would support this (the Praetor, Kaiser, Arbiter thingy) change you proposed even if you are Author. It doesn't mean because you are the Author that you know what you are doing.

Jonas wrote:Long may Kaiser Reynardine I live in war and chaos!

...Wait...hold the phone....


...I require the smackdown picture...

Just cause I change my mind, and update my plans doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing.

....and just because you know what you are doing does not make you right.

This isn't about right or wrong. It's not about rights. It's about doing what is needed to maintain the charter and protect it. To keep it free from clutter and useless junk. It's about keeping the system outlined in the Charter basic and simple, as well as flexible.

I don't think you understand the Charter. I think very few people have, this is why I tend to discourage people from touching it.

Under the current charter, before you jack it up, we could have ANY system we wanted. We could do whatever we wanted. We could have vote based, 1 vote, New Feudalism, Old Feudalism, whatever we might desire! This was the freedom I wrote into the Charter. To be free from a single person dictating the details of day to day operations for all time. I wrote the system so it could be changed by the Landsraad and the Kaiser, simply and easily. Most of what is in the Charter is just outlining the Kaiser, Landsraad and Arbiter. That they exist, but give little detail on them. The rest is the charter protecting itself, and putting some simple checks.

No rights, no restrictions. Complete freedom of system! With your amendments you put your will, your Ego before the future generations of this nations. You put it before the wishes of those in the nation, and against the will of the Landsraad as a whole. You violated years of tradition and balance.

You jacked up the system to put it flatly. I will not rest till I restore the system, remove your limitations and shackles upon this nation, and help strengthen the Charter against future actions.

You(and others) accuse me in various places of having to much power as Founder (Power you legitimized.. amusingly), but never in all my Kaiserships did I abuse my power over the Charter to get around the will of the Landsraad, as you have. I decreed stuff, vetoed.. but never used the Charter as a political tool. The Charter is sacrosanct.

Erik Mortis wrote:You(and others) accuse me in various places of having to much power as Founder (Power you legitimized.. amusingly), but never in all my Kaiserships did I abuse my power over the Charter to get around the will of the Landsraad, as you have. I decreed stuff, vetoed.. but never used the Charter as a political tool. The Charter is sacrosanct.

Because it's yours? You wrote it, it's that huge Erik-face stamp that lays across Benacia, Apollonia and everything in between. Only Erik really understands and can interpret the charter. It's almost papist.