Shireroth

Jake... ... You betrayed the spirit of the Charter, and the Spirit of Shireroth to get your personal whims inscribed in Stone, against the wishes of the people...

The Count of Monte Crisco has made this charge against me.

This stems from amending the Charter in a legal manner during my time as Kaiser. Several prominent Shirirthians do not the amendments.

If my noble accuser is correct, I should fall on my sword in penance.

The People were invoked. What say the People?

I say that's how we know that the world is banana shaped.

I refuse to Vote.

Option 3!

It's hard to chose between 'shut up' and 'Viva'.

I was away. But Shireroth is a pretty open place, and if people do what they think is right then they've got balls and the best of luck to 'em, I say. I can't really vote but everyone sounds a little too heated over a minor tiff here.

I don't mind it if the Kaiser tries to put misguided changes in the Charter. Especially if it's Jake; he knows what he's doing, and despite all of the controversy he has gotten what he wants. Attacking Jake over this is like trying to drain the ocean - he's far too subtle a politician, and it's far too clear that what he was doing is what the Kaiser should be doing: Taking the country in the direction he thinks best.

Furthermore, Erik was drunk at the time he said the quote in the OP anyway. A little bit of grumpiness and overprotectiveness is what we expect of Erik, and ethanol tends to magnify those traits. No-one should hold a charge against Erik for it.

No, what I'm disappointed about is that there was a check in the system - a protector, and representative of the will, of the Dukes convened - and said check failed. The arguments I've heard from him so far are, paraphrased: He'll just sign what the Kaiser decrees, it won't change the voting system, he knew about the changes before they were decreed, and he had the new Kaiser's support.

It has been said before, but I really do want Jonas to understand that the position of the Praetor is more important than he thinks. It's a position with significant responsibility, and the necessary power to ensure a competent Praetor can measure up to it. A good Praetor has to go above the minimum of what the Charter demands from him to ensure that amendments given to him work well and mean what he thinks they mean.

Still, all this is... not *really* a big deal, though. The only blowup of significance so far was when Corey dismissed the Landsraad - seriously, we can do just fine with one-duke-one-vote, thank you, and a functioning Landsraad seems a much better deal than a dismissed Landsraad to me. PRH, I even voted option 3.

No, the reason I'm tl;dring on the subject is that I have heard rumours of Jonas planning to vie for the Kaiser's throne (again) one day. He made a simple, honest mistake (assuming that the amendments wouldn't change Landsraad voting procedure), an error in judgement (assuming it mattered that he'd heard about the changes earlier - this is a misjudgement when you consider that he was later shown to be mistaken about the meaning of the amendments), and tried to push off responsibility over the amendments to two different Kaisers. It's OK to make mistakes, but a little bit of humility and foresightedness would go a long way to ease my misgivings about the possibility of a Kaiser Windsor.

The Praetor is not a glorified rubberstamp. The Kaiser is not an unlimited autocrat. Both are subtle, political positions where each move could cause controversy. Drive safe, Jonas, keep your eyes on the road. Shireroth might be a silly and pointless exercise, but you'll be a better person once you understand why people expect prudence within it anyway .

I vote for my own option: Any one saying that Jake should leave Shireroth over this is to be shot on sight. A lot of criticism, however, you'll just have to live with.

Oh, and one more thing. If someone says stuff to the effect of "when this is all over, let's all try to forget the anger and sing Kumbaya by a campfire", I promise my answer will be "But... I wasn't angry!". I hope Shireroth knows me well enough to understand I was honest, despite being the one probably spending the most time furiously typing over this whole issue. I don't think anyone except Erik got mad at anyone here, and, well, Erik's Erik.

(actually, furthermore, I try to live by the... I don't know, male principle that you are responsible for your own emotions regarding stuff that happens in Shireroth. If Jake makes you angry, you should blame yourself for getting angry, not him for making you angry. If Jonas makes you angry, same thing. If Jess makes you angry, hey, welcome to the club, but I don't hold it against him, he'll learn tact and maturity with time. You want to get angry, go read up on Scientology or something. Well, I *would* like to know if I made anyone angry, though. I can't expect everyone else to live by the same principle after all.)

ARI, YOU MADE ME ANGRY BY USING "TL;DR" IN A POST THAT LONG. IT HURT.

Ari Rahikkala wrote:The only blowup of significance so far was when Corey dismissed the Landsraad

Actually, ask a couple of people, and one or two might mention that I had dismissing the Landsraad in my mind for quie a while. (I believe Ric can attest to this fact)

I dunno, perhaps I just find the bureaucracy tedious and time consuming. It's much more fun (and possibly more activity-generating) to just decree something and watch people complain over it, and then others countercomplain, and so on.

HOWEVER! I still have plans for Monday...

I like puppies.

How do you prepare them?

Shireroth has survived by fixing stuff that wasn't broken for years. Frankly, they should be throwing you guys a parade for giving the whole system a swift kick in the balls. It's weird, it's somewhat entertaining, and it shows where all the weaknesses are. Plus there's no way you can totally screw the system. Push comes to shove, Erik will just invoke founder's status, launch a rebellion and easily overthrow you, and put in a new charter exactly how he wants. The fact that it hasn't happened yet must mean you're still within the boundries of whatever is considered acceptable.

Thanks Harvey.

Jake, you weren't here for it, but I tried something very similar my last Kaisership (or maybe the one before that), with exactly the same results. Erik got really upset and said sort of mean things about me, I got upset with Erik and felt offended and like I wasn't welcome, everyone involved learned the lesson of not messing with the Charter unless it was something important enough that you're willing to risk Erik's wrath for it, and three weeks later everyone had forgotten about the whole incident.

I suggest you wait three weeks.

Maksym Hadjimehmetov wrote:I was away. But Shireroth is a pretty open place, and if people do what they think is right then they've got balls and the best of luck to 'em, I say. I can't really vote but everyone sounds a little too heated over a minor tiff here.

I'm enjoying it. What a joke. A joke that brings life back a bit.

Ari wrote:The Praetor is not a glorified rubberstamp. [/quote3ywfcm]

No?

I knew about it, and agreed ( ). It doesn't feel like Jake and I have failed with this change of the charter.

Scott wrote:Jake, you weren't here for it, but I tried something very similar my last Kaisership (or maybe the one before that), with exactly the same results.

And Shireroth is still here?!

Jonas wrote:I knew about it, and agreed ( ). It doesn't feel like Jake and I have failed with this change of the charter.

You have failed by putting crap in the Charter that doesn't belong there.

Mike Fors wrote: You have failed by putting crap in the Charter that doesn't belong there.

Cool down a bit, Lord Fors. Otherwise you explode, and that's the last we want.

Don't patronize me.

Why is Erik pissed?

Pissed in the British sense, AKA drunk.

I've been both recently.

Pissed in the British sense because I've been playing StarCraft, which requires me to be drunk so as not to trounce my friends to much.

Pissed in the angry sense because the Charter was changed (legally I admit) for stupid reasons and in a bad way. If these laws had been put in place by Decree or Landsraad, I'd be annoyed with the lawyer one, and possibly support the voting one. But instead they went into the Charter.

And yes, Scott did mess with the Charter once, by putting lame things in it that didn't belong in it. I later removed them. And I think some of it ended up in the DecreeBook/Lawbook, though it's all gone by now.