Shireroth

M'Lord. I petition you strongly to revoke Imperial Decree 337, and "unamended" the changes made in that Decree from the Charter, with Praetor approval.

In both cases the amendments are simply the previous Kaiser's attempts to instate and force upon the future, his personal whims.

The Charter is a blueprint for the structure of the government of Shireroth. To place such petting things as "rights" and "equality' into it cheapens the document. It reverses the tread seen in the last 4 years of reducing the Charter to a flexible document only containing those things that MUST be above the Kaiser. Further, doing so is a flagrant abuse of power.

In the case of the later change, the one concerning equality for Dukes(???), it is an even more flagrant abuse, and imposition upon the Landsraad's rights to self organization. By imposing this "all dukes are equal" clause in the Charter, the Kaiser is imposing a 1 vote per duke system, removing from the Landsraad the ability to set it's own voting rules(which are now in violation of the Charter).

The fact that the Praetor let both these changes through is even more disturbing. That the Praetor did not deny these changes to safe guard the Landsraad demonstrates a complete breakdown of the check the Praetor represents to protect the Landsraad and a lapse in judgment that the Landsraad itself may wish to discuss.

Lord Mortis, you know just like every other human being here in Shireroth that I'm the last who would protect democracy and the rights of the Landsraad (however, if the Dukes would ask... ).
The reason why I didn't deny the changes was because I knew of them long before this was even posted by His Niftiness, our Graceful but Dead Kaiser.

And I even had the support of our new Kaiser to sign it.

As a member of the Landsraad, I consider this action by the Prætor grounds for removal. A Prætor that does not automatically protect the Landsraad is not fit for the office. A Prætor that has no respect for the fundamental organisation of this nation's laws is not fit for the office. The Kaisers may think what they like, but the rule is there for a reason.

Jonas wrote:Lord Mortis, you know just like every other human being here in Shireroth that I'm the last who would protect democracy and the rights of the Landsraad

You are the Prætor for Christ's sake! That is your job!!

No? I thought the Praetor just oversaw things and made sure everything went smooth-like? He's still a loyal citizen of Shireroth and he should do what's best for Shireroth, not the institution he is a member of.

Not Dead, just abdicated.

If I wanted to force my will on the future, I'd have re-written the Charter in my own image, and my tokas would still be on the throne.

Benkern: True, in the Landsraad the Praetor is more or less a glorified rubberstamp and archivist. In this one case, however, he's the one check on the Kaiser to keep zir from going above the Charter. If he just accepted amendments to the Charter blindly as Jonas seems to have done here, there'd be no point in having a Charter in the first place.

I'm not advocating replacing Jonas as Praetor just yet unless someone who I'd trust to do the job very well and understand zir responsibility challenges him for the position. There's no need to make heads roll over a mistake that can be fixed with a single Imperial decree as long as we have a Praetor who rubberstamps Charter amendments anyway

It's not a mistake. The Praetor agreed with the Kaiser. He helped restore equity, and has helped chase the moneychangers from the "temple" of our laws.

LONG LIVE THE PRAETOR!

Blame the system, blame me, not a loyal officer.

Jonas has been Praetor for a long time and hasn't shown any intent to leave the position any time soon. Better school him so he can actually do his job of keeping future Kaisers in check than try to get every Kaiser to internalise the principles behind the Charter

The Praetor does not need to oppose the Kaiser just because of his job desciption. There is no need to invent an adversarial relationship.

The second that clause for the Praetor in the amendment process was added, they were made adversarial in matters of the Charter. Jonas, and others, need to understand. The Praetor has the duty and responsibility of protecting the Charter, and the Landsraad.

The Landsraad is afforded certain protections under the charter, from the Kaiser. Small but important protections. The Praetor is bound to guard these protections. This is not the first time this has come up.

Further, Jonas, if you are anti democracy, then why have you promoted the creation of general rights in Shireroth. Those two amendments one can easily see as the beginning of a Bill of Rights. Something we've all long avoided (and I've slain a few times).

He is a loyal monarchist, and the Monarch asked for his support.

Hmm.

Jonas has been a loyal Shirerithian for many years and impeccably served as the nobles' prætor for years. He's seen kaisers be born and die. Just one thing, and this heats up.

I understand, and I agree, with what Erik and Mike said. The Charter ought to be as basic as possible, outlining the basal system of government for our empire. The former kaiser amended the charter with the blessings of the prætor. The current kaiser okayed it.

Although, I would like to see the charter updated; it does hold some peculiarities I have not yet understood. I think it is best we leave this subject here and now, and focus our attention in creating a better charter, with perhaps these new additions removed or remaining, depending on the will of the charterial gathering and ultimately of the kaiser and the prætor's scrutiny.

Lord Goldshire,

I shall take your and everyone else's concerns into consideration. I do agree with Lord Iserdia, however. There is a current discussion for a mass amending of the charter, and we will leave these clauses to be addressed in that convention, just like the rest of the charter.

I made the right choice.

Viva Reynardine!

Mike Fors wrote:

Jonas wrote:Lord Mortis, you know just like every other human being here in Shireroth that I'm the last who would protect democracy and the rights of the Landsraad

You are the Prætor for Christ's sake! That is your job!!

Christ? For Mors' sake!

If he just accepted amendments to the Charter blindly as Jonas seems to have done here, there'd be no point in having a Charter in the first place.

Lord Straylight, I didn't sign it blindly, I was doubting about signing it because of the call of a charterial convention. But i my opinion as POWERFUL Praetor I thought (and think) it couldn't hurt to pass it. What I did.
I knew from the changes long before it was posted, the last thing I did was signing it blindly.

Further, Jonas, if you are anti democracy, then why have you promoted the creation of general rights in Shireroth. Those two amendments one can easily see as the beginning of a Bill of Rights.

Lord Mortis, certain 'rights' are needed to preserve the absolut monarchy. The equality of each Duke is no right. Some of you thought the one-vote-system was unfair to the duchies that had more money, citizens, etc. (don't forget this isn't changing the voting system).


Stupid Dukes who think they can undermine my power... where are those guards if you need them?!

Take a look. This amendment has led to the collapse of the voting system, and the dismissal of the Landsraad...

Erik Mortis wrote:Take a look. This amendment has led to the collapse of the voting system, and the dismissal of the Landsraad...

And the problem is... ?



We will solve this matter, eventually.

One Duke One vote!

It's out of your hands now, Jake.

I can still make noise.

Yardistani, you know.......

*Plots to invade Yardistan*
Say what?

You've made enough noise.

Well, since I loose access soon, you will be very pleased at not hearing from me for a while.


OH, YEAH? YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE GONE ALREADY! SHUT UP!

Not until I have to!

I SAY YOU HAVE TO!

oh yeah?

YEAH!

(dust cloud) @!#@#%^*^*(&^