Shireroth

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:22 am**

Scrap talking and trying to reach a consensus. Nothing tends to happen after talking. Those who see any potential in voting seem to think this better than the current system so I shall be bold and just propose this, for a Duke to take it up for me.

Procedures of Landsraad 3. Voting
A.

1. After a bill has been presented, there is a period of exactly four days (96 hours) during which the members of the Landsraad can vote on it. Each member has one vote with a value outlined below, which he or she may cast in any unambiguous way to represent a vote of aye or nay, on any bill during the voting period. A vote only applies to a bill exactly as it has been presented. At the end of the period, the Praetor counts the votes, announces the result, and if the weighting of the ayes outnumber the weighting of the nays, updates the LawBook with the changes.

2. The weighting of a vote in The Landsraad shall be pegged to the amount of Voting Credits held by each Duchy, such that each Ducal vote cast counts as as many votes as the number of Voting Credits held by the Duchy. Only Dukes have a voting right in the Landsraad, either Aye or Nay.

3. Voting Credits shall be sold by the Ministry of Trade for 100 erb each. The Ministry of Trade shall maintain an up to date list at all times.
a. Voting Credits may be purchased by any citizen for any Duchy, as long as the Duchy is stated at time of purchase.
b. Voting Credits may not be transferred between Duchies.

4. The Ducal voting shall be public, and the amount of Voting Credits in each Duchy shall be tabled at the start of each vote. Only the amount of Voting Credits held at the start of voting may be counted towards that vote.

B.

1. Voting Credits are not terminated at the end of each vote, but may be reused.

2. Upon reaching the Procedures of the Landsraad this system shall be on trial for one month. At the end of that month, the Praetor shall call a vote on whether the system should be revoked. The voting for that vote shall be One Duke, One Vote, so the outcome shall not be skewed in favour of those already benefited by the economy. If that vote passes, this clause shall be removed from the Procedures of the Landsraad and the system continue indefinitely.

3. Each Duchy shall initially start with 1 Voting Credit.

Basically, instead of all Erb being counted for votes, you have to convert 100 Erb into 1 Voting Credit, and it's the number of Voting Credits that determines your vote's weighting. This thus stops encouraging hoarding. I'm not sure about 3b but figured it better to just say "no transfers". If you want to help another Duchy, you can always buy votes for them. This way, money keeps flowing.
EDIT: I'd forgotten to put in the clause trialling this for a month. After a month we can see if its helping, harming, or indifferent. After trialling it we'd also have some idea whether it's worth, as Erik suggests, removing some per Voting Credits each month, and any other necessary changes. I'll say now that if the system basically works but needs some changes, we'd vote to keep it, then vote for the changes .... but I'm putting the trial clause in to keep those who dislike any voting basis to our economy happy.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:44 am**

I suggest the removing of X amount of voting credits per month to keep the numbers from getting ridiculously high. if you already have zero, you cannot go negative.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:50 am**

Is ridiculously high numbers a problem, though? Remember, the money goes to the government, so though it would eventually get back to citizens, it wouldn't be a very rapid process. There wouldn't be chain buying getting buying like you get in some economies.

Plus, Jake gets his wish, in a way. Once the numbers are fairly high, buying another couple votes doesn't change your value too much so it'd end up near to one ...

Gah, I forgot one bit. Check back in a minute after I've edited the above thing and see if that helps ...

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:15 am**

Since this won't go into the LawBook, but into the Procedures, you should perhaps redraft B 2. If you remove B 1 as well, or change it to say that voting credits are terminated when used, I can introduce it in the Landsraad. I think that using up voting credits will keep the cash flowing more than this will. If you go down to 1 after each vote, you have to continue buying credits to a larger degree than if you accumulate VCs. As a consequence, perhaps the price should be lowered to, say, 50? Otherwise, very nice proposal.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:33 am**

I find it acceptable...

...although, perhaps a reset of VCs every so often, maybe?

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:49 am**

Oroigawa Koreyasu wrote:I find it acceptable...

...although, perhaps a reset of VCs every so often, maybe?

I was thinking about that. Perhaps the VCs last for, say, a month? I buy 10 VCs at December 1st. They last until January 1st.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:21 am**

Since the Steward / Kaiser-designate is OK with this, I will stand out of the way. Bold initiative should not be shot down by a knee-jerk reaction.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:45 pm**

Mike Fors wrote:
Oroigawa Koreyasu wrote:I find it acceptable...

...although, perhaps a reset of VCs every so often, maybe?
I was thinking about that. Perhaps the VCs last for, say, a month? I buy 10 VCs at December 1st. They last until January 1st.

If they reset after each vote, then it's not buying credits, its basically auctioning like Ari, except you had to put in your bids before the bill began. [plus, it'd get confusing if you have multiple votes on at once. Which one do they terminate after?]
Each specific one lasting for a month would require me to take very specific notes of purchases, with expiry dates and so on .... a general reset might be easier ... but then people wouldn't buy later ...
I can see the merits to them resetting after a month, but why not just leave the trial month as is, and then see whether it seems needed or not. As for B1 - that one was already in there, as I'm sure you know ...

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:00 pm**

Fair enough, but what about B 2? This is not for the LawBook, but for the Procedures.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:52 pm**

Is all you meant to add the word "Procedures" there?

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:17 pm**

Now it says "Lawbook Procedures". What is that? There is only the LawBook and the Landsraad Procedures. They are two separate documents.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:29 pm**

Are they? On the wiki I just went to the Lawbook and saw Procedures was an appendix, so thought it was still a. Part of the Lawbook and b. You'd just said "this is for the Procedures ..."

EDIT: Is that right then? For future reference, if your only problem with my bill is that I've referred to a particular law or book incorrectly, you're quite welcome to repost the bill with that corrected instead of making comments which, I'm sure, make perfect sense to those with a degree in Shirithian Law, but can be misinterpreted by us common folk

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:51 pm**

Andreas the Wise wrote:Are they? On the wiki I just went to the Lawbook and saw Procedures was an appendix, so thought it was still a. Part of the Lawbook and b. You'd just said "this is for the Procedures ..."

I said "This is not for the LawBook..." The Charter and the DecreeBook are also appendixes...

Andreas the Wise wrote:EDIT: Is that right then? For future reference, if your only problem with my bill is that I've referred to a particular law or book incorrectly, you're quite welcome to repost the bill with that corrected instead of making comments which, I'm sure, make perfect sense to those with a degree in Shirithian Law, but can be misinterpreted by us common folk

But then you wouldn't learn anything.

It's correct now.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:21 am**

The Lawbook is separate from the Charter is separate from the Procedures is separate from the Decreebook.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:03 am**

This is why I think a Shirerithian Law 101 course at the University would be a good idea.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:24 am**

Don't have me teach it.. I to often get confused with old laws that are still in my head but not in the books anymore.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:35 am**

I can teach it. I think I have a good enough knowledge of the legal system to teach it.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:42 pm**

Take this to the Landsraad first?

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:18 pm**

After the Kaiser's informal vote.

Posted: **Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:39 pm**

Your graces, can this be put before the Landsraad yet?

Posted: **Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:08 pm**

Honestly, for those who like 1 for 1 systems. Having a system where VC's don't go away is best.

Plus there is no fair time based way to implement removing them, and basing them on how many votes they've been used on is impractical to book keep.

Shireroth

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