Shireroth

The MCS Claims Act has been finished and approved by the Kaiser. Please pay me the bounty for my work. 200 if I'm not mistaken.

Not to be picky or anything, but can we wait till it at least gets to the Landsraad first?

Why? That wasn't part of the deal. I was supposed to draft a MCS bill and that's what I've done. What happens with it next is none of my business.

I'd actually have thought you were meant to draft a bill that got through Landsraad (and thus redraft it if necessary) but at the least I'd like to see it publicly posted, thats all. So we know it exists.
(besides, Jake has the keys to the crown account and can pay you if he's happy with it just via pm ....)

Andreas the Wise wrote:So we know it exists.

So, you think there is a risk I might be lying?

No. I'm not doubting that you think you've done your job right. But after the ... incident I've agreed not to mention again ... I'm more cautious about paying stuff I haven't actually seen. The Kaiser is welcome to, but if I have to sign off on it, I'd like to sign off on it after I've seen it, if that makes sense.

Really, we need to make it clear my role. After attempts at budget bills I'm no longer sure ... am I meant to be handling the bounties, ensuring ministers get money if they need it (but letting them organise the spending themselves) and leaving the Kaiser free reign with the crown account. Or am I meant to be the accountant signing off on every single payment? Hence, if the Kaiser is organising this legislation, I figure he can pay if you'd rather get paid immediately instead of waiting a day until it goes to Landsraad and I can see it before I sign off on it.
Surely the Kaiser has access to the crown account for some reason ....

The last thing I heard was that the Kaiser doesn't have access to the Crown Account yet. As I said, I resent that you're implying that I'm a liar. Furthermore, you are not supposed to "sign off" on it, the Kaiser has already done that.

I know Jacobus has access to the crown account because the system records show he paid from the crown account to him (to repay for paying Jonas 500 earlier). I'm not trying to imply you're a liar (though I must admit I also resent your response that you just have to draft it, you don't even have to be ready to redraft it to ensure it gets through Landsraad. That's such a lawyer response), but I'm trying to avoid setting a bad precedent again (the last one bothered me for so long afterwards). If you're happy with the Kaiser's say-so then you should also be happy to wait a day for him to pay you himself or yell at me for reading too far into my job. If you want Minitrade to actually pay you, not the Kaiser, then you can at least pass basic Minitrade bounty guidelines - ie that we can see what you've done. I'd like to include the guideline also that any legislation the government pays for doesn't get paid until its been redrafted and got through Landsraad (certainly that's what I took the bounty for "writing up legislation for the Landsraad" as), but if the Kaiser would like to change that policy, he's welcome to.

Bottomline - if the Kaiser's signed off on it, can't you just post it in the Landsraad front gate to keep me happy, then I'll pay you? I'm generally a very generous Minitrade, sometimes just seeing development has been done, skimming it to see its not complete garbage, and then paying. But I do like to be able to at least skim.

EDIT: Think of me in this instance as a blustering public servant who's encountered a situation that's not quite covered in any current regulations. So I'm sticking to exactly what I know works until someone higher up comes and yells at me.

I will edit this and stop being a dick. Andreas, next time ask me for a PM instead of implying that I'm lying. The Kaiser said that I should go to you for payment, since he should keep his hands off a bit more. As for all the other stuff, I have completed the work I was hired to do. Redrafting is up to the Dukes in the Landsraad, I have no authority to do that once the bill is introduced.

I will not. I can PM it to you, which you of course could have asked me to. Perhaps refraining from accusing me of being a liar could have avoided this?

I think we both just have quite different ideas of how this is done, that's all. The way I interpreted the deal was/is that it was to get a bill for the Landsraad to pass, and so me asking to get it to the Landsraad was what I've interpreted as a normal part of the process (ie as far as I'm concerned you haven't quite finished your job yet, so your pay can wait the whole 12 hours it might take for it to be put to the Landsraad). Obviously you didn't interpret it that way, and I, I'll admit, I got a little annoyed at the way by which you pointed that out. So I tried to clarify that. And you just took it as me accusing you of lieing. And my mind cast back to the last time I refused to pay a bounty because I thought the job wasn't quite done yet, and eventually gave in to arguing, and regretted it for a long time afterwards. And I'm terribly sorry, but if this is a bill to put into the Landsraad, I really don't see how asking you to post it in the front gate should be considered offensive or an onerous subcondition of the contract. You're acting as if it's some highly secret business, and that's just making me more suspicious and unwilling to pay it. I really don't see why you would have far preferred me to ask for a pm than to ask you to post it in the organisation to which its meant to be delivered ... But clearly you have some great personal objection to posting it publicily. Sorry. But I also have a personal objection to paying for stuff I can't see/a job that I don't think is quite finished yet. So I'll remain stubborn until I'm officially corrected by the Kaiser, even if it means an honest bloke like you has to suffer the incredible indignity of waiting a day to get paid, because it'll make it clear for the future, if people are trying to get money they don't deserve, that I'm not going to budge until the case is clear.

Summary: I don't think the job's finished until its at least posted publicly, if not in the Landsraad. Obviously you interpreted the contract as merely writing the first draft. I guess the wording wasn't too clear in the original request. Sorry about that, but if the Kaiser wants to keep out of the loop, we'll go by the basic Minitrade standards we've applied to every bounty previously to avoid bad precedents for the future. I know you're not dishonest, but you're making me suspicious by not granting what seems to me a simple request - to post it; but I also know there might be dishonest people in the future who say "But you paid Mike ..." and people don't like me taking illegitimately paid money back, so I'm applying to same standard to everyone. It's not meant to be a personal attack, sorry you thought it was.

The Kaiser has accepted this work. It is done. The job was to draft a bill for the Kaiser to be presented to the Landsraad. I have done so. I won't post it publicly because it is not mine, the bill was drafted for the Kaiser. I do not post the work I do for other people publicly without their say-so. This bill is not controversial but, as you say, I wouldn't want to set any bad precedent. Check your PM inbox. There you will soon see the bill and the okay from the Kaiser.

Check your pm. I still think you're taking this commercial in confidence business too seriously

(yes, you've been paid).


Now, to go and demand the Kaiser tells me official policy for this in the future!

I am a lawyer after all.

To All: I've sorted out with the Kaiser that he will sometimes tell people to ask me for payment. Now this is official I can go and pay things even if they're hidden at time of payment .
But I warn you. If you lie about the Kaiser giving you permission to get Imperial funds and I find out ... the full might of MiniTrade will be unleashed against you (via the Fraud bill ) to recover every last erb + legal fees. So don't even think about trying

Now I've made that statment clearly, I feel so much less worried about giving people money they don't deserve, as I can always get it back.

Also, if at all possible, we'd like to see what you've done before paying for it, unless the Kaiser has said otherwise.

Pay him, already.

I told him to bill you.

I just recently got the password.

I hate squabbles over stinking money, real or MN.

For five rusty erb and a good stiff drink, I'd suspend the charter and trash the whole economic mess.

I apologize to both of you for the brouhaha.

Yes, I paid him already ...

Thanks.

Sorry.
***********************
I'm going to talk to fishy now.

Fishy understands kaiser, don't you, fishy?

Yes, and kaiser likes fishy, too!

My niftiness, watch out, that's an evil fish, it could infect you with evil plots![/mock severity]

Evil Plots?

I take tea and maple sugar with Malarbor regularly.

I AM eevill plots!

(Isn't that right Fishy?)