Shireroth

The following is a focus thread on one of the ideas I've had. Feel free to assist if you're interested in the topic.


Erb For Orbats

I'd like to start by saying my aim with all the economic proposals is to avoid turning micronations into a mono-game. Meaning, I do not want Shireroth or the community to turn into a rule based game with cans and cannots. I believe economic simulation should compliment our community, not run it. I'm not sure if anyone else was concerned with that possibility, but I felt it necessary to state my point.

The problem we're currently facing in our economic development is the establishment of lucrative independent business. While the Erb has been pegged to a definite value (the vote) we still lack a means to gain more erb outside of government sources. I would prefer ideas to develop organically, but I am not opposed to throwing ideas into the ring and seeing how they are received.

At the present time, the only item of value is the vote. To a lesser extent, cultural work in the form of images and other media have their own niche market. This does not make a prosperous economy alone and must be supplemented with other potential commodities.

There are other possibilities for market expansion, the trick is to make them work in Shireroth. When I think of any other element that has value in this community, my first thought is land. I will state that I am completely against land exchange for Shireroth at the MCS level, however there is another alternative.

As Shireroth has successfully developed an elaborate system of sub-divisions, would it not be possible (and profitable) to allow for land exchange at the duchy and barony levels? There is a precedent for this idea in terms of tradition. In a few cases, Dukes of the past have agreed to exchange land for one purpose or another with some support.

My proposal is that we encourage land exchange as a means to increase Duchy rivalry and generate economic growth. I propose the following as a means to achieve this:

- At the Duchy level, new Duchies may only be created from ceded lands from currently existing Duchies
- At the Barony level, Baronies must only be created from ceded lands from other Baronies.
- To create these subdivisions, an individual must negotiate with the holder of the land they seek and make suitable offers to achieve it (erb etc..)
- If so desired, an individual may also use the threat of war to achieve their goal of land expansion.
- If this path is taken, an individual must purchase military units (ORBATS) using erb from an appropriate vendor (company)

By this system, if a Duchy had more people than it did sub-divisions, it would be necessary for that Duchy to acquire more land from another Duchy to maintain its population. This would also work on the Barony level.

Downsides:

- Increased rivalry within sub-divisions (this might also be a good thing)
- If adopted and used, it will become very difficult to maintain an up to date map (this would generate map business however)
- Restricts powers to create new sub-divisions from thin air
- May potentially result in the loss of an entire Duchy if unregulated

Upsides:

- Allows for increased business (ORBAT factories etc..)
- Gives a legitimate reason to spend erb
- Increases inter-division activity
- Could pave the way to a reliable recwar system where units have value and are purchased

The Essence of the idea:

- More people within a given sub-division means the potential for increased erb and therefore increased votes. To achieve more people within that sub-division, the Duke or Baron must expand their land to accommodate a larger population. However, by doing so they must spend (invest) erb into such a plan to achieve the larger goal of more influence and therefore risk losing erb if it does not work out.


I'm not suggesting this be adopted as I present it here, but I think there is a kernel of value in the idea as a whole.

Your thoughts?

I like the idea of buying Orbats from a MOMA approved company, maybe the company itself has to pay for a Orbat license.

As for trading land between duchies, I'm inherently opposed to that honestly. However I still approve the idea of having to buy titles, or at least the land to go with it. Maybe Duchies can implement a system by where you can be a baron yes, but you won't have much/any land until you buy it from the duke.

And say, in the case of Goldshire, if it wanted to revive, they would have to buy their land from Brookshire.

I see where Hesam's coming from and agree with the land thing. Don't like the idea of a single approved Orbat place though ... (though if you're going to bring in Orbats big time you might as well go CITRA ...)

Well, that's why I suggested licenses for orbat companies, so multiple companies could compete against each other for giving out, and designing orbats for people.

Personally, from experience, moving land around a lot causes a lot of confusion. It's a bit like bringing back New Feudalism.

Ok, if its several companies, sure. That almost comes back to ...

Hesam, your idea, ministries teach, administer tests, must be passed to be licensed (eg Legal consultancy, Orbat company etc) ... could add that in again ...

Might help to bring the University back...

Erik, I think the idea of Licensing is brilliant. What if we had separate licences for each type of warfare? This would ensure that there is no monopoly on any given style. So there would be licenses to produce "Sword and Shield", "Magic", "Modern", "Future" ORBATS. This would also encourage each Duchy/Barony to participate in recwars within different genres.

If you still support the idea of purchasing titles, I think we should look into it. BUT. It should be regulated so that a title can only be issued by the next highest title holder.

Kaiser can appoint Dukes
Dukes can appoint Barons
Barons can appoint Counts

This ensures that no one drops a shitload of erb to become a Duke straight from a commoner.

I can understand your concern regarding the purchase of land so there should be certain qualifiers for all of this:

"So you want to be a Duke? You Must"

- Purchase the Title and accompanying land to do so
- Hire a cartographer (or yourself) to update the maps to reflect the change
- Have a sufficient population to warrant the position of Duke under the law
- Be qualified through course work?
- A fee paid to the Arbiter to ensure all laws are followed

Since becoming a Duke is a BIG deal, I think it should be very difficult to achieve it in this manner.

The University should make a come back definitely. Teachers should be able to charge for their own courses with a tax on the teachers going back to the university. Courses should be pre-requisites for Licences in some cases. I'm not saying these courses should be killer, but a basic understanding and introduction to an issue.

Instead of paying me, they have to hire a license lawyer under Shireroth law. Aside from all that I think we have something going here..

The different types of Orbat licenses would be great. I know Monty Crisco would purchase a modern Orbat for it's Paratroopers, and an Ancient orbat for Archers. And since I'm not THAT familiar with the orbat system, they could design my orbat for me.

My only concern is ensuring these concepts are concise and easy to understand. In drafting them, It should be straight forward so that someone isn't stuck half way through the licensing process and then abandons it out of boredom or frustration.

Well, honestly, we could keep orbat licensing as simple as going to the MiniTrade and paying the fee for the license, filling out a basic form, and the MiniTrade issuing the license (which has a expiration date)

Good call on the expiry date. BTW, are we going to allow more than one company to be given the same license? I think it's important for anti-monopoly.

Would that mean that the next kaiser can only be a duke?

Uhm. Nevermind. Please continue. This is interesting.

I would say granting multiple companies the same license makes sense. Our economy is to small to not allow monopoly to occur, but we don't need to encourage it.

Law still allows the Kaiser to be Duke. (though I was reviewing it the other day and think a duke isn't allowed to also be a baron... it's an old law.