Shireroth

This is my alternative to Andreas' system of Minister salaries, and a fix for our bounty system. There are some parts I am not at all certain of, especially section 2.

I. Bounties
1. The Imperial Government will have an official budget each month to spend on bounties.
a. This budget will start at 300 erb/month
b. The Kaiser or Landsraad can change this budget at any time.
2. The Minister of Trade will confer about bounties with a committee of his choosing.
a. This committee must contain no fewer than three people from no fewer than three Duchies.
b. This committee's decisions can be vetoed by the Kaiser or Landsraad.
3. The committee will distribute the bounty money among people who have done good work for Shireroth.
a. Ministers should get at least a token amount of 10 erb if not negligent, and an additional bounty if they have done especially good work for their ministry equal to the bounty that work would receive in a non-ministerial context.
b. All decisions about bounties will be public.
4. The Praetor and Arbiter will receive a fixed 30 erb bounty, not part of the the 300 erb pot, per month if not negligent.

The purpose of this bill is to set a procedure for giving out bounties. Our current system suffers from these problems:

1) There's no guidelines to how much a bounty should be.
2) There's nothing to prevent the MiniTrade from giving out too much money too quickly.
3) There are no checks on the MiniTrade's power to hand out money.
4) It doesn't include a system of Minister salaries.

This bill puts bounties on a fixed monthly budget and gives the Ministers a minimum salary plus the chance to earn more bounties. It also gives the Praetor and arbiters fixed monthly salaries. The salaries are low, but the positions should be ones that people want to do out of patriotism and not for financial compensation. In every government, government positions are paid less than a similarly qualified person could earn in the business world.

This suggests a government bounty budget of 360 per month, which is a lot, but our citizens are worth it.

I like the having a set budget for government spending, not to be exceeded. Though we may still need taxes, but maybe a percentage tax, not a flat tax.

And the committee is not needed in my opinion.

Please ignore the following quote:

Straylight Nay (370). I think we shouldn't hurry this issue but should instead discuss it a bit further at the front gate. (yeah, I know. I previously voted for Landsraad procedures that I considered to be imperfect, saying that we can change them again as soon as we like... this time, I think the system is good for now, and we should give it a little bit more time before we pass laws about it)

Besides, I'm not really sure yet if I like the committee idea anyway...

This is the front gate.

Let me see if I understand this right - because one interpretation I quite like, one I think won't work too well.

If I'm interpreting it right, bounties now become retroactive. Instead of doing some and saying "pay me money," you do something, and, next month, a Council looks back over that month and says "you know, that thing so and so did was really cool, lets give them 50 erb."
A few proactive bounties could be offered, eg "fix up the wiki pages for the Duchy of Kildare and we'll pay you 30 erb," but unless specific things needed doing, the main part of the government's budget is spent recognising the achievements of last month. It takes away all the bother of people demanding money off me at exorbitant rates, and instead puts the burden on me and reps to scour the whole of Shireroth and find culture. Both ways are, I guess, open to huge corruption. And this one sounds like a famous rejected MCS idea ... but hey ... I think it could work.

Course if I'm interpreting it wrong and the government just ends up hording money, that's bad, but hey.

Erik - a percentage based tax won't work in this style of economy. Why? Because it punishes people for having wealth. Which defeats the whole purpose of the economy. You can put a tax on business services as a percentage if you like. But a percentage tax on wealth means the poor, inactive citizen pays a fraction of what our hardest working citizen does ...

Bureaucracy much? The council is completely unnecessary. I think we should trust the Ministry of Trade with handling this. So far, I think their guidelines are very good. No need for this...

Or we could do that too ...

I'm going to have to agree with the Ass. Arb. Having a committee would slow down the economy to a hault. The Minitrade already has oversight from the Kaiser as well as working closely with the Judex. In fact, I think the Ministry of Trade is probably consulting the Judex on legality more than anyone right now.

I do like the idea of a general budget as opposed to salaries. I think that ministers should be able to claim small bounties for the work they do. It's also easier logistically and more fair considering a bad minister would get their salary regardless of whether they work or not.

Too bad I can't charge you for the consults. I think the bounty system for officials is a good way to go too. I do hope the Judex is included.

Ever hear of a successful AND poor lawyer?

(Btw, how costly is it to join the Bar these days?)

So we're all agreeing Ministers are paid by bounties. Do we or do we not want a set budget for the Crown?

The Bar isn't activated yet. I'm getting around to doing that. If we charged a fee for joining, which we perhaps should, the money would go to the Crown Account. Erik had some ideas about a bar exam. With him in and out, I think I should do the exam. Info will be upcoming in the Judex, shortly-ish.

Andreas, the balance of the Crown account is meant to be the government budget. The Kaiser is supposed to distribute the contents of the account as he sees fit. To regulate government spending would require an act of Landsraad and HEAVY input from the JUDEX as to the legality of limiting the Kaiser's spending power.

Mike & Andreas,

(idea copyright of Hesam Jayatar, Automat Inc. 2008)

A thought just occured to me. way back when, Shireroth used to have a university. I had just considered that if we created classes we could make them pre-requisits for various positions. It then further occured to me that we could charge for those classes.

eg.

Mike is acting Arbiter,

To become an Arbiter, one must be a member of the Bar in Shireroth. To be a member of the Bar in Shireroth, one must pass Mikes "Ambulance Chasing 101" class. This class costs 50 dollars. The school, "Mike's upstairs legal college and barbar shop" is a private school owned by Mike.

Result: 1. A qualification level, 2. A commitment to completion due to qualification and cost. 3. A profit and guaranteed income source that does not rely on government bounties.

(idea copyright of Hesam Jayatar, Automat Inc. 2008)thoughts?

Ah, the old charging for uni. The thing is, you need to have teachers willing to teach and students interested to learn ... but if it can work in any micronation, it's Shireroth ...

That's my point though. If there is a required qualification for positions, there is money to be made and activity to be had.

I'll buy that idea from you. Say, 5 ?

Just pass whatever you make by me and I'll proly say yes Mike. And we should charge a reasonable fee to join the BAR.

20 erb and I'll cut you into the idea. split the profit then after, 50/50.

Haha forget it. Just a clear cut exam, learn what you need to know however you want to then.

Low Balling eh? We'll see where this goes...

Haha I suppose so. We'll charge you extra for the exam, just for fun.

Gentleman, if we can return to the matter and - bounties. Tax has been set up so it can support either model ... can we get a bounty law through so we can start paying them?

I'm kinda turning around on the salaries issue.. Yvain made a very good point when he said that ministerial positions privilege you to do work that other people can't, and that work is rewardable through the bounty system. I think it would save us some trouble not to have salaries.

Let a kaiser be a kaiser, and spend what money s/he has available.

And if there isn't any, well, tighten your belts.

Fee for service? Say someone wants a forum made, Ari does it, fee goes to

A - Ari

B- Royal accounts?

No. Ministers shouldn't charge fees - its their job. It wouldn't be fair if Liam only pursued a treaty with Gralus if I paid him.

That being said, I'm firmly for paying Ministers by bounty.

As long as the bounty distributor sympathetic to high-labor low-glamor jobs like MiniInt and MiniImNat, bounties are the way to go.

I don't know why everyone's so against a committee, though. It seems like a lot of power to place in the hands of one Minister, especially when that Minister is himself going to be from one Duchy. (As always, I trust Andreas, but not necessarily his successor). Or what if the Minister of Trade is just the sort of person to be really impressed by a good work of fiction, but doesn't like maps or histories? And if the Minister of Trade himself does good work, who can fairly recognize it?

Does everyone else just think MiniTrade should do it all himself, or are there other ideas?

Well, I think there should be a better way than me doing stuff. To avoid allegations of corruption, for now and in the future, and so that my efforts in Kildare can get properly recognised.

Yvain brings up a good point.

However, this is why we have the Judex. While it might not be "popular", we have lawyers and the Arbiter who can preside over issues like as fairness. If you feel you got a raw deal on a bounty, address the Minitrade. If the Minister won't do anything about it and you still feel it's unfair, hire Mike and approach the Arbiter. If you don't get a ruling you like, and it's still an issue, remember that the Kaiser is technically a higher court in those circumstances, so approach the Kaiser. And if you STILL don't get results, you're probably in the wrong.

*Supports Hessam*