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Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:52 pm
by Yvain Wintersong
Lawbook Chapter XIII, Sections E and F, will be amended from:
E. Initial Distribution

1. The initial issue of currency at the launch of this new economic system shall be as follows:
a) 500 erb to The Household Account
b) 400 erb to The Steward
c) 200 erb to each Duke
d) 100 erb to each Baron
e) 50 erb to each standing citizen and each new citizen who did not qualify among those listed above in the original issue.

F. Distribution and Citizenship

1. A citizen who revokes their citizenship or is declared legally dead by The Kaiser or by Act of Landsraad will have their account revoked, and the balance returned to The Crown Account. Any individual who had once held citizenship in The Imperial Republic Of Shireroth who then renounced their citizenship and has again applied for citizenship shall not be issued the initial allotment of currency as stated in Article 5 e). A citizen who achieves a higher status within the hierarchy of The Imperial Republic Of Shireroth (as stated in Article 5 of this Law) shall be issued an allotment of currency according to their new rank. If that citizen then revokes their rank and is reinstated to that rank, they will not receive an additional allotment of currency.
To:
E. Distribution of Money
1. All new citizens shall receive 50 erb upon joining Shireroth.
2. Any citizen who achieves a higher status within the hierarchy of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth shall be issued a congratulatory gift of money from the Imperial Crown according to his or her new rank, as follows:
a. A commoner becoming a Baron will receive 50 erb.
b. A commoner or Baron becoming a Duke will receive 100 erb.
c. A commoner, Baron, or Duke becoming the Kaiser will receive 300 erb.
3. Any uncollected gifts may be collected at any time by making a request to the Ministry of Trade. For example, a person who is now a Duke and was once a Baron who has never received money may make a request for a gift of 200 erb: 50 for citizenship, 50 for the Baronial title, and 50 for the Ducal title.

F. Fraud
1. Any attempt to exploit the economic system of Shireroth in a way deliberately contrary to the intention of its framers shall be known as fraud.
2. Fraud is a crime in the Imperial Republic of Shireroth.
3. The following actions are examples of fraud:
a. Transferring a noble title with the sole intent to benefit economically from the Crown's gift to new title-holders.
b. Joining or enticing other immigrants to join Shireroth with no intention of staying, with the intent to benefit economically from the Crown's gift to new immigrants.
4. The Ministry of Trade may declare any application or transaction to be fraud, and may cancel the transaction.
5. The Iudex may declare any application or transaction to be fraud, and may cancel the transaction and, in cases where there was clear criminal intent, sentence the offenders. These sentences may include fines, demotions, bannings, or whatever else the Iudex considers necessary.
Changes: This section was arranged as an Imperial Decree giving the money before, so I changed it to a Lawbook section declaring how money should be given.

I changed the amounts of money around to make sure that the amount previously gained was taken into account (a Duke during the reign of Kaiser Hesan would only have received 200 total, so a new citizen who becomes Duke should not receive 50 for citizenship, 100 for Baron, and then 200 for Duke, he should receive a total of 200).

I changed the separation between sections; instead of the decree plus commentary, it's now the distribution rules plus fraud. I added some new sections about what fraud is and what to do about it.

I removed the rule that old citizens re-immigrating don't get any money, because if someone left Shireroth in 2002 or 2003 and is coming back now, I don't think they deserve to be penalized. There's no incentive to just keep quitting and joining again and again, because your old account gets dissolved each time you leave, and F-3-b prohibits trying to make money by shady plots involving immigration.

I corrected some grammar, like singular "they". That really bothers me.

Re: Distribution and Fraud Act

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:58 pm
by b3n|<3r|\|
Just a note: proposed pieces of legislation are known as Bills, when they are passed they become known as Acts. Because laws that aren't enacted yet aren't really actions of the legislature. :)

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:03 pm
by Yvain Wintersong
Yvain hastily edits his post
Why, whatever could you mean? :angel

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:16 pm
by b3n|<3r|\|
What can I say, I'm a crazy guy who says random stuff that doesn't relate to anyone's posts in the thread I'm posting in. :kaiser

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:51 pm
by Jess
No, this would make the Household account run out

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:21 pm
by Erik Mortis
So... What do I get? I've kinda been everything... And then unbeen it... then been it again.. Was I duke when the system passed? But now I'm not...

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:23 pm
by Malliki
If this will lead to the Household account running out of money, I suggest a nifty tax on all citizens, preferably according to rank. Dukes pay more, commoners pay less. :D

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:28 am
by Bill Bekkenhuis
Mike Fors wrote:If this will lead to the Household account running out of money, I suggest a nifty tax on all citizens, preferably according to rank. Dukes pay more, commoners pay less. :D
Sorry, woke up this morning and the first thing I see in Shireroth is a message from my business partner entitled "Fraud Bill" and I thought, ye gads, they're on to me already! :)

Okay, now I'll wander back to my usual off-topic haunts and allow the serious discussion to resume.

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:27 am
by Hesam Jayatar
Since Shireroth really isn't a confederation, I would suggest taxing Dukes only, and allow Dukes and Baron's to arrange their own tax rates.

This Bill looks good. Since the Decree was revoked (I think) this is definitely needed. The only other suggestion I would make would be to clearly define the roles of the Minitrade, Arbiter and Kaiser in this.

The Arbiter should not be considered a Revenue Service, But an appointed Court official. The reason the Arbiter has access to the bank is to ensure that the verdict of cases brought before him can be carried out if they involve fines etc..

There is definitely a need for a fraud prevention official, but the question is where that would fit in and who would do it? Are we expanding the power of the Arbiter to fufill that task? Or will this be a sub-office of the Minitrade?

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:25 pm
by hypatias mom
This looks sound to me. I see only one possible edit that you might add: Where the word Judex belongs, the word is written ludex twice in section 5.

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
by Andreas the Wise
I like it. The money distribution was how I understood the system anyway ...

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:23 am
by Erik Mortis
The Arbiter should not be considered a Revenue Service, But an appointed Court official. The reason the Arbiter has access to the bank is to ensure that the verdict of cases brought before him can be carried out if they involve fines etc..
I am not an enforcer. That lies in the hands of the executive powers. Mine are purely judiciary.

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:26 am
by Andreas the Wise
We enforce, you audit?

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:06 am
by Hesam Jayatar
I think that's a perfect arrangement. The Minitrade will have a revenue bureau then?

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:49 am
by Erik Mortis
I just hear the cases. If someone violates contract, I issue a ruling, and others will carry it out.

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:50 am
by Hesam Jayatar
yes, others meaning the Minitrade. Oh! Oh! Or perhaps an internal private police force? :evil

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:51 am
by Erik Mortis
One not run by Elywnn....

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:52 am
by Hesam Jayatar
But we're really really good at it! :smashy

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:53 am
by Erik Mortis
That's what frightens me.

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:59 am
by Hesam Jayatar
Fine, but just so you're aware, we are equally good at the criminal side of things.... :angel

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:09 pm
by Andreas the Wise
That's why we'll leave Elwynn out ... I'd like a non-corrupt MiniTrade, if possible ...:kiwi

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:13 pm
by Hesam Jayatar
Fine! Then find a way to launder your own money and extort from companies!












(j/k)

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:00 pm
by Oroigawa Koreyasu
Andreas the Wise wrote:I'd like a non-corrupt MiniTrade, if possible
Then you ought be fired... :smashy :p

No no, just kidding...

No, but really... :D

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:33 am
by Yvain Wintersong
No, this would make the Household account run out
Jess, your concerns about the gifts depleting the Household account are valid, but this bill doesn't propose the gift system. It just edits a gift system that's already law. This bill effectively lowers the gift amounts a little, since it prevents the Household account from being charged twice for the same position.

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:39 am
by Andreas the Wise
Jess, your concern is admirable ... I'll tax you extra if you want ;)

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:22 am
by Malliki
F. Fraud
1. Any attempt to exploit the economic system of Shireroth in a way deliberately contrary to the intention of its framers shall be known as fraud.
2. Fraud is a crime in the Imperial Republic of Shireroth.
3. The following actions are examples of fraud:
a. Transferring a noble title with the sole intent to benefit economically from the Crown's gift to new title-holders.
b. Joining or enticing other immigrants to join Shireroth with no intention of staying, with the intent to benefit economically from the Crown's gift to new immigrants.
4. The Ministry of Trade may declare any application or transaction to be fraud, and may cancel the transaction.
5. The Iudex may declare any application or transaction to be fraud, and may cancel the transaction and, in cases where there was clear criminal intent, sentence the offenders. These sentences may include fines, demotions, bannings, or whatever else the Iudex considers necessary.
I suggest adding this:
4. The Ministry of Trade may declare any application or transaction to be fraud, and may cancel the transaction. Such a decision may be appealed to the Imperial Judex.

Just after I posted this I realized that this is still possible without this amendment, so consider this suggestion to be aimed at clarification.

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:05 am
by Hesam Jayatar
Yeah I think Mike is right to include that bit, it gives people a bit of information on what rights they have instead of just assuming they'd know.

This reminds me, Andreas, would you mind putting in a clause that makes members of the Minitrade safe from litigation against their person? I really don't want someone to sue me because I make a transfer mistake.

Re: Distribution and Fraud Bill

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:01 pm
by Andreas the Wise
They both sound good ideas to me ...