Shireroth

Your Imperial Majesty,

I humbly submit that as Jess has been caught attempting to commit a fraud against the Imperial Republic and since the Imperial Republic lacks at present the institutional and statutory mechanisms to adequately punish his misdeed I petition your Imperial Majesty to banish Jess from the Imperial Republic for no less than two weeks and to break him down to the rank of commoner for his hopeless "no0bishness" as an example to encourage the others.

If we cannot have adequate laws let us at least have adequate punishments.

I don't like the idea he lied in his application form.

I think public ridicule has been enough. We don't need to go about banishing him. What if he wanted to try to see if people would treat him differently, and thus act differently, as another person.

Sometimes our own pasts can trap us into who we are. If given the chance to be someone else, we can be someone else, someone better behaved, and better respected.

If given the chance to be a new person, might we have treated him differently, and maybe thus have given him a chance to show a more mature side?

If this was his intent, then I say it might have been a shame that we caught him. At the very least, I doubt he intended to do harm. And thus why should be punish him when he meant no harm?

I say, if we Must punish him, let it be mild. Not two week banishment.

Erik is right. It looks like the french revolution... maybe I'm next to get banished

It's just Jess. If he does it again then perma-ban or whatever the Osmanis are calling for at the gates, but no punishment is necessary in this case.

hypatias mom wrote:I am afraid we are unable to add you to the members list of Shireroth.

" First investigation showed that he had the same email addrees as Vilhelm Tjaarda, Prince of Nederlanden (Vanderveer), whose English is not bad at all.

Second investigation showed that the IP address of Mr van Frysk are VERY VERY similar to Jess's, from an ISP in Iowa, United States.

I hope this doesn't mean Jess is being a naughty boy in Vanderveer as well.

If he is, Not our problem?

Ardashir--It may be that the recent falsified document may not be the only false assertion he has made. I have received information that would put his stated age into question, by 14 years!! This has not yet been verified, but I am now going to attempt to do so. According to internet rules, no one under 14 may join. If he was underage when applying, we have a problem.

hypatias mom wrote:Ardashir--It may be that the recent falsified document may not be the only false assertion he has made. I have received information that would put his stated age into question, by 14 years!! This has not yet been verified, but I am now going to attempt to do so. According to internet rules, no one under 14 may join. If he was underage when applying, we have a problem.

Ahum. This sounds like breaking privacy rules.

(Posted under the name "Johannes Adelistmeiner")
Your Name: Jess
Your Email address: jasure123 (at) hotmail (dot) com
Your Age:?
Any other Micronational citizenships: Amokolia, Shireroth
http://prinsvlaanderen.proboards53.com/ ... thread=198

(Still posting as "Johannes Adelistmeiner")
i wish to revoke my citizenship for a few reasons... :'( i might return sometime though!

-For the last time

Johannes von Braun
http://prinsvlaanderen.proboards53.com/ ... thread=204

The Khan of Vijayanagara wrote:

hypatias mom wrote:I am afraid we are unable to add you to the members list of Shireroth.

" First investigation showed that he had the same email addrees as Vilhelm Tjaarda, Prince of Nederlanden (Vanderveer), whose English is not bad at all.

Second investigation showed that the IP address of Mr van Frysk are VERY VERY similar to Jess's, from an ISP in Iowa, United States.

I hope this doesn't mean Jess is being a naughty boy in Vanderveer as well.

Name: Vilhelm Tjaarda
DOB: 08/22/80
Interest in Vanderveer (i.e. anything out of the ordinary, starting a business, anything): Heraldry, Renaissance Art - Rembrandt
Residency of Choice: Het Verenigd
Other Micronational Citizenships: Mulgaria
http://prinsvlaanderen.proboards53.com/ ... thread=202

Jess wrote:The Basics:
Name: Jess Heimer
Account: Jess
Residence: Isle of Naudia'Diva, Naudia'Diva, Holy Lands of Shireroth, Yardistan, Shireroth
Position: Count of Naudia'Diva, Baron of HLoS, Ambassador to Babkha (? Havent been there for a while) Court Jester
Nobility: ^ ^
Citizenship: Gralus, Vanderveer, Shireroth
Contact: jasure123 (msn, aol, gmail) jessten95 (yahoo)
Awards: Goldon Nixon
Photo:
Webpage: http://www.myspace.com/amokolia
-------------------------

Shireroth, Vanderveer, Gralus, Mulgaria... Tri-Cit violated? Hmm.

Here you go Carol. Proof that Jess is 14.

Hat tip to Jeremy of all people

Your Name: Janos Andrasne
Your Country of origin: USA
Your Age: 14
Your chosen region of resident: Anterricht
Any previous micronational experience: Undisclosable
Notes: n00b Here!
The oath: I swear loyalty to the Empire of Anterreich-Launderschnell, His Royal and Imperial Highness Emperor Charles and all his heirs forsaking all hostility to this nation. Amen!
http://anterreich.proboards49.com/index ... &thread=58

(János Andrásné posted a thread headed Resignation of Citizenship, circa March 2008)
János (jess from amokolia)
http://anterreich.proboards49.com/index ... &thread=59

LawBook:
"C: Non-Malicious Acts

1. Should anyone break a law, but do so either as part of a non-malicioct or for reasons that are obviously good ones and beneficial to the nation, they will not be considered guilty and will not be subject to the normal punishment.
2. Whether a certain incident was part of a non-malicious act or beneficial to the nation will be under the discretion of whatever judiciary bodies exist at the time the incident took place, as well as the Kaiser."

I call upon the Kaiser to recognise this deception as being essentially malicious and in no way beneficial to the Imperial Republic otherwise we are all entitled to violate Tri-Cit if we feel that our very presence benefits the forums PPD.

hypatias mom wrote:Ardashir--It may be that the recent falsified document may not be the only false assertion he has made. I have received information that would put his stated age into question, by 14 years!! This has not yet been verified, but I am now going to attempt to do so. According to internet rules, no one under 14 may join. If he was underage when applying, we have a problem.

Shireroth has no rules regarding age to join. I do not encourage such rules...

Okey. Tri-cit is a valid violation, and I don't oppose it's punishment...

Returning to Erik's previous points. I think that this evidence shows that for Jess lying about his circumstances is a routine part of his behaviour and as such this attempt to come back as Gerhard van Frysk, a 34 year old from Holland, is not an attempt to turn over a new leaf but rather to evade responsibility for his actions. Moreover it is an attempt on Jess' part to have his cake and eat it. This citizenship application came as he claimed to be entering a leave of absence out of protest at the failure of Kaiser Loki II to secure the throne. Attempting to put himself into Straylight under a new name whilst making a great show of storming off is not an attempt to make a fresh start but an attempt to deceive.

In addiition, jess joined fraudulently in the first place, by claiming to be 26, not 14. And if he also hid various other memberships to get his list down to two other than Shireroth, he also violated the Tri-cit rule, and was also ineligible. This, in addition to all the other circumstances, seem to call for his permanent banishment. He should not be allowed to come back as a member when his every action shows him to be duplicitous in his dealings with us.

I'm opposed to permanent..

I would suggest that this be brought before the Imperial Judex, instead of the Kaiser's Court. We want something to do. At least I do.

I second Mr. Fors' suggestion.

I think that is totally appropriate, and Jess will have to answer in court for his behavior. If all (or even most) of these charges are verified, what type of punishnment do you think is in order?

This is ridiculous. Jess is and always has been a noob. All he needs is a slap on the wrist. He will change for the better, but we will not be here to see that if we force him away.

He will never change if he is always allowed to make the same old evasions. He must be punished. Only then will he ever be likely to learn from his past mistakes. If he needs to go away from here in order to reflect, so be it.

I think you forget that the tri-cit rule was ment to bind citizens to Shireroth and make them more active, I don't think Jess' activity suffers under his citizenships.

And it's an outrage that you are using macronational information of other micronationalists, if this happens again then I leave this nation. Noboddy needs to know what I do and what age I am in real life.

This topic is the proof that some people here just want Jess gone, first because his double account. Then for his age. This looks like the inquisition.

Age, tri-cit, fraud, whatever. Jess has made a very real contribution to Shireroth. Let him be. Don't take it too far or you'll discourage the poor kid.

If he does it again, ban him, forever if you must. But he hasn't even had a chance yet.

That is for the Kaiser to determine.

Benkern--

I'm not sanguine about your attitude. He has shown a pattern of deceit. If it is not dealt with, this will continue, perhaps becoming a guiding principle in his RL behavior. We have rarely seen anyone willingly lie on so many applications and continue to do so for more than a year. This seems like a serious, ongoing problem which will perpetuate itself if not stopped.

Jonas--

You seem to be missing the point here. It's not just that Jess has violated the Tri-cit rule. His various applications show a blatant disregard for the truth. Just because he has been active does not make his presence here lawful or desired.

Corey--

The "poor kid" has engaged in deceit from day one with us. Adult patterns are often reinforced if not stopped when discovered.

The law is there for a reason, Benkern.

The only punishment that can be handed out is for violation of the Tri-Cit rule, since no law specifically outlaws papelism. I'm not aware of any precendence, but a sentence could theoretically be anything from a slap on the wrist to banishment for a set amount of time. Permanent exile may only be ordered by the Kaiser.

I've seen micronations destroyed by citizens who run amok unchallenged because their countrymen are too timid to bring them to account. The granting of graces and second chances sap legitimacy from the law. If Jess is truly a benevolent force in Shireroth, the Judex would find such and rule appropriately. To demand some kind of clemency before the process of trial has even begun is antithetical to the concept of institutional justice as a whole.

Again I say, let it go to the Judex.