Shireroth

Posted: **Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:17 pm**

The Procedures of the Landsraad shall be rewritten as followed to clean up the system, and make it adhere to the restrictions of the Imperial Charter.

Procedures of the Landsraad

1. Members of the Landsraad
Membership in the Landsraad is determined in accordance with the Imperial Charter and the recognized noble titles, as outlined in the Imperial Lawbook. Only Dukes or their appointed Emissaries are considered Voting Members of the Landsraad.

2. Bills
The Landsraad passes changes to the LawBook. Each bill is presented in the form of an unambiguous change to the LawBook, and must have a name used by no bill presented before it. Any Voting Member of the Landsraad, the Kaiser, and the Praetor, can present a bill for voting.

3. Voting Procedure
After a bill has been presented, there is a period of exactly four days (96 hours) during which the members of the Landsraad can vote on it. Each Voting Member has one vote which he or she may cast in any unambiguous way to represent a vote of aye or nay, on any bill during the voting period. A vote only applies to a bill exactly as it has been presented. At the end of the period, the Praetor counts the votes, announces the result, and if the ayes outnumber the nays, updates the LawBook with the changes.

4. The Praetor
The Praetor is appointed in accordance with the Imperial Charter and has the rights and obligations established therein.

5. Speech
The Kaiser, any Voting Member of the Landsraad, and the Praetor, can freely express their opinion on any bill presented in the Landsraad. Imperial Ministers may speak on bills involving their ministry. The Imperial Arbiter may speak on bills to alleviate potential legal contradictions and/or violations, and/or when an official legal opinion is requested. Those without right to speak within the Landsraad may voice their opinion at the Landsraad Front Gate.

wiki copy: http://www.shireroth.org/shirewiki/Proc ... sraad_3236

Posted: **Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:22 pm**

I need a noble to put this before the Landsraad for me, as I am unable to do so.

This removes Barons from the Landsraad completely. And lets only Dukes, the Kaiser and the Prætor speak within the landsraad. (ministers and the arbiter have special allowances). Only dukes can vote and it's one vote per duke. Majority rules.

The previous version violated the charter in minor but important ways. This also sets the system to generally what people seem to think/want the system to be currently. If we tried to pass the economic voting system again, this set of procedures would only need a slight edit.

I also noticed that the economic voting system did actually pass. (illegally I point out). So...I guess this needs to be rewritten or scrapped already.

Posted: **Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:09 pm**

I like my right to talk in the Landsraad ...

Posted: **Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:53 pm**

We have no rights.

Posted: **Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:36 pm**

I rather like the "system" where the Landsraad forum is mainly for having the dukes officially register their approval of a bill, and the actual decisions are made at the Front Gate where the bills get written and rewritten until they have wide support. It keeps the Praetor's job nice and simple and helps avoid nuisances like the last few bills. Disallowing the Barons from speaking in the Landsraad again would go a long way in getting us back to this state...

... except that with the economy we can't do it anyway because the barons have to be able to cast their approvals/disapprovals of their dukes' votes

Posted: **Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:05 am**

Erik Mortis wrote:We have no rights.

Well, ability then ...

Posted: **Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:19 am**

Well.. you're just a baron. Traditionally you don't even get a say in the Landsraard. and as a Commoner/Count, I get even less say.

Posted: **Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:36 pm**

Well, tradition clearly hasn't been imposed for the last couple months ...

Posted: **Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:24 pm**

If I gag the Kaiser (or rather have an expendable minion do so) and leave him in a closet, do I get to talk?

Posted: **Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:34 pm**

I forgot about the Steward... Technically... all references to the Kaiser in documents tend to also refer to the Steward.. so.. I'd say yes.

Posted: **Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:02 am**

Yeah but its my opinion not to interfere with the workings and business of the landsraad. If things pass, they pass if they fail they fail.*

(Not withstanding anything that I've a direct personal interest in :P )

Posted: **Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:39 am**

Well, don't forget your veto power. It's kinda important.

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:30 am**

It's important as a defence for the tradition of the state, but I do not wish to use it as an administrative tool. I've posted this elsewhere, Im going to be online on Saturday for a "Status of the Imperial Republic" meeting. I want to go over all of the Landsraad issues. If you're online could we discuss it then?

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:09 am**

If I'm around...

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:31 pm**

A problem that took me a little while to realise:

We seem to often pass stuff that don't actually go into the LawBook - treaties, statements of opinion, things that look more like executive orders than legislation even. I forgot to take that into account when I wrote the current procedures - isn't it time we fixed that?

One thing we could do is actually put treaties and such in the LawBook - which won't be a huge amount of work, since all you need to do currently is LawBookify the treaties in the treaty archive that are currently in force... except that both of those threads need to be updated

...

The other thing we could do is take into account in the procedures that the Landsraad can pass things which don't actually go into the LawBook but have the force of law anyway. I've even done that myself a couple of times... but it's starting to sound really ugly now that I really think of it

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:44 pm**

Oh, and one more thing. This one sprang to mind when I was bringing the Treaty with Antica to the Landsraad... how about a provision to allow the MiniEx to present treaties to be voted on?

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:49 pm**

Of all the non-nobles who should be given this right, I believe the Minister of the Exterior should definitely be one. This would solve the problem of the delay in presenting treaties by whichever duke chooses to do so.

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:50 pm**

Damn it. and I already put it up for vote. Should I start over and rewrite. Or just pass this one, then make another to change it yet again? hehe

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:57 pm**

Well, I don't think there's a limit on how often the Landsraad procedures can be changed, so...

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:22 pm**

Is it possible to amend it, or to pass an additional provision to the bill already under consideration?

Posted: **Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:57 pm**

No, not under the current procedures, and I suggest we keep it that way. It's not fun to vote when there are half a dozen different versions of the bill in the same thread and nobody knows which one they're voting on (especially since, you know, those different versions tend to be introduced because people were disagreeing on significant points)...

Posted: **Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:55 am**

It was an annoyance in the past.

Posted: **Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:56 pm**

Technically, though, I'm allowed to speak in the Landsraad on things within my jurisdiction. Would this fall into that catagory? Maybe an amendment in not necessary...

Posted: **Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:24 pm**

But is speaking the same as proposing a treaty? I wonder if that point has been delineated. I thought that ministers could only speak, but not propose legislation. Or am I putting too fine a point on this?

Posted: **Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:56 pm**

Speaking = proposing? I dunno, it sounds like it doesn't break any rules to me.

Posted: **Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:10 pm**

/me shrugs

I approved it from the moderation queue... if someone has a problem with that, let's just pretend I had taken the treaty to the Landsraad myself

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:07 am**

After this passes I'll put another revision forth to clairify Ministers and such.

Speaking is especially ANY post in the Landsraad. Proposing is a form of speaking. (oddly I consider Voting a separate thing all together...)

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:16 pm**

Damn it! I went to put the edit in for Article 5 and it went away again...

Shireroth

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