Shireroth

This is something I've wrestled with for some time.

Some really neat, almost nifty nations evaporate and die when the Guiding Genius that started it goes away, for whatever reason.

(Gotzborg, for example)

This puts a lot of pressure on a Founder, because, hey, believe me, there are times when the founts of inspiration dry up, and a body couldn't care less.

How can a community provide for succession? How can it pull together when that happens?

I support Erik as Kaiser(s) as long and as often as he wishes, but, gods forfend, there are busses and meteors and terrorists and banana peels "out there".

I've left before after a mental collapse 2 year ago.. and I think we saw what happened... It doesn't make me pleased...

There always is a lot of pressure on a founder- whether it be of a democratic or autocratic micronation, the founder will always have a kind of special part of the nation which her citizens can't have. That's why often if the founder leaves an incredibly autocratic nation, the speed of deterioration will be very quick- Shireroth is somewhat autocratic, but we have the Landsraad and a feudal system.
Well, who would you choose as your successor, Your Niftiness?

Some of us still stubbornly believe it's possible for Shireroth to reach critical mass and go on without Erik for years (if he should disappear, though it's not like I want him to)... well... one of us does, anyway..

Babkha has survived without its founder...

Its not about having the founder. Its about the core of the micronation, which is a dynamic thing sometimes in forward-thinking micronations. In most, the founder is the core, so this has led to the belief that the founder's departure causes the death of the nation; however, if many people create the nation, are prominent members of the community, know and understand the nation both as a community and as a state, the loss of the founder will be a reason to weep for the loss of *him* (edit: or her ), not the nation.

I think this is far more about leaders and followers than about inspiration going away with the founder of a place. Now, that being said, I'm a micronation newbie (so to speak), and my experience is more with communities in general as opposed to, well, micronations; but I've seen communities started by not-so-leader-ish people that then only grow to their full potential the moment someone who does try to take charge enters the playing field (though this is an unusual setup, but I feel it's the one that best explains the dynamic)... and activity waxes and wanes with such people.

I expect it's much the same with micronations.

*nods in approval*

Followers are always important... that's something we haven't really touched on. The greatest leader, the most charistmatic personality, the smartest and best dressed person (read: Bill :P) isn't much without say 4 other guys doing stuff. But in relation to the "core" idea, it's entirely possible to have solely the 3-5 top guys in your micronation running the place for weeks at a time - however I believe fresh blood is one of the most important things. If the core leaves, they assume the positions; or the nation grows, and the core with it; and in the mean time, they learn the ropes and become great statesmen.

I to believe a critical mass could be achieved... problem is.. I don't know what it is.. and other things happen to at that critical mass.. like factionization... increased conflict...and break away groups...

andelarion wrote:Babkha has survived without its founder...

But how much has Babkha changed without it's founder?

but we aren't talking about change.. we are talking about survival? Shireroth has changed a lot with a founder...

Survival, if we define it as a nation not being inactive, is extremely easy to achieve- that could constitute me just posting occasionally on an essentially dead nation's forum.
Being active and vibrant, a productive nation, is what really requires skill and citizen input.

Amen brother.

I've tried to keep nations on "life support". It's not easy.

I was put in that situation when I was asked to become Kaiseress after Bill (the then Kaiser) disappeared for the second and last time. Caretaking, when new to micronations, is not easy when the country's citizens are dispirited and most of the main, founding members have bailed. None of the remaining members really had the corporate knowledge, so to speak, to continue the great traditions, and we were left floundering, with too few people trying to just keep Shireroth from disappering. It gets depressing to just get people to stay involved when we don't know in which direction to take the country.

And it's always around that stage in a nation's development- that depressing lull you describe- when you begin to get posts on MNN advertising for citizens or leaders stating in overly long posts how they'll destroy their nation, angling for praise for it.
Either that or people try to make everyone else interested by announcing an arms programme or change of the government to fascism or something pointless and misguided.

hypatias mom wrote:I was put in that situation when I was asked to become Kaiseress after Bill (the then Kaiser) disappeared for the second and last time. Caretaking, when new to micronations, is not easy when the country's citizens are dispirited and most of the main, founding members have bailed. None of the remaining members really had the corporate knowledge, so to speak, to continue the great traditions, and we were left floundering, with too few people trying to just keep Shireroth from disappering. It gets depressing to just get people to stay involved when we don't know in which direction to take the country.

Well, you did, given the very difficult and gloomy circumstances of those days of misery and dispair in which you had to reign, quite well, My Lady.

Hear, hear!

I am grateful for those kind words, but more than glad to see the sceptor back in its rightful hands.

Indeed. Long live the rightfull kaiser!

I'm really not that great a kaiser... espcially in the last 2 weeks... since bieng off my meds I've barely posted, and have spent most of my evening not being sober..

I think you give us someone to rally around whether or not you're doing anything.

You're very much Shireroth to many citizens, and as its founder people look up to you as a sign that Shireroth is doing well. Even if you're only posting once a week stating whether you're drunk, it has a beneficial effect on the populace.

Quoting myself, as I often do-

I think we should blame the whole war on Evil Foreigners who attempted to poison the Kaiser. If we had any enemies, we could blame them, but i suppose we can wait until there are some.
Enemies, that is......

Great Britain ruled over 1/4 of the globe, and the Queen-Emperess said nice things and gave out awards.

That mightiest of Empires was built in her name. People were thrilled that she was well, or went to Scotland, or had tea, etc., etc..

Knowing that you are around gives the nation a Standard around which to Rally.

That is exactly it. You are Shireroth, whether you like it or not. Just knowing you are around gives us all hope for the future of the country. It's funny--you don't even have to do anything extraordinary; just be yourself--that's enough. (And you might reconsider going off those meds. If you need them, they probably would help. And we do care about how you are.)

Exactly. Often, the very fact that all a sovereign needs to do and his/her subjects will still feel this way about them being on the throne is as much as a Kaiser could ever hope for, I suppose. In that, I'd say that Erik is a very successful Kaiser.
When one looks at other monarchies- younger ones- the monarch is often the most active citizen by far in the micronation. By not being the most active at all here, Erik actually reinforces the idea of the monarch being a figurehead. It just appears more... noble and professional to have the ability to function without having the founder and Kaiser around all the time. If that's not a good sign of our maturity as a micronation, I don't know what is.

I think we should blame the whole war on Evil Foreigners who attempted to poison the Kaiser

In true English Civil War style lol

Toketi handled succession rather well... Liam decided college was getting a bit much, so he set a successor (me) and set a date, and then when the time came the Kingship was smoothly transitioned. Toketi is as active as ever! My theory - if the transition is planned and expected, it will most likely work out well. If it's abrupt and a surprise, the citizens will wait for them possibly to return, and nothing will get done, and the nation will die. Probably.

Shireroth is the *other* exception to everything.

MURPHY'S LAW OF EXCEPTIONS!