Shireroth

WHEREAS the two countries of the IMPERIAL REPUBLIC OF SHIREROTH and the CONFEDERATE RIANATES OF LEMURIA, having come into contact with one another and and finding their interests to be coincident, do desire to formalize and secure their cordial feelings, they do agree:

FIRST, that each recognize the other as a sovereign and independent country, possessed of all the rights entailed thereby

SECOND, that both countries commit to resolve all mutual disputes peacefully, using a neutral third party agreed to by both should this prove impossible by normal channels

THIRD, that both countries shall remain open and accessible to tourists and other visitors from one another, barring national emergencies or other such security issues

FOURTH, that both recognize one another as the rightful owner of all territory, real and imaginary, that they claim.

FIFTH, that proper channels of communication shall be opened between them, so as to facilitate dialogue and future cooperation


PS: The link to Lemuria is http://mncentre.net/lemuria/forum/index.php

I'd say yes just because they have a name that sounds like Lemming, but I have a fetish for that i'm told.

I don't believe their treaty will pass as-is, but just as a note, this specifically mentions us and could cause some conflict. We might want to consider at least asking them about this. The territorial clause basically brings them into conflict with us on a "dead" issue.

sounds good, and Bill, could you please put up the timetables for this, so i know whether or not i have time to visit the country before i vote one way or the other... GROOVY! thaaaanks

The offending part of the treaty of Lemuria with Antica is this:

Article IX. This Concordat shall be seen as a peace treaty between all past hostilities existing between the people and government of Antica and the present and future inhabitants and governments Lemuria, as well as that of any past state which is currently joined to either nation.

Article X. Lemuria recognizes the Republic of Antica and whatever seccessor state may develop from it as the sole legitimate government and posessor of the lands formerly belonging to the Dinarchy of Antica as well as any lands currently claimed or occupied by the Republic of Antica.

Article XI. Lemuria is devoted to the cause of peacefully and diplomatically liberating all Antican territory from Shirerithian rule and reunifying said land and peoples with the Republic of Antica.

Aryicle XII. In the even of any military or diplomatic conflict between the Republic of Antica and the government currently controlling Shirerithian Antica, or any successor to said government, Lemuria pledges its support to the Republic of Antica or its successor state. [sic]

Now, I do know that there is reasoning behind this. Indeed, it should have been obvious the moment I noticed Kuryalov was Foreign Minister. Lemuria is placing sides already. There are a couple reasons for this:

1. Lemuria was part of the Grand Commonwealth, which we have had a rivalry with.

2. It is more advantagous for Lemuria to ally with the Republic of Antica, given the potential block that ican form.

3. Delphi is part of our nation. Most specifically, Kuryalov (and obviously the rest of the nation) has a serious grudge against the Dinarchy Antica because he had deleted Feianova. (Remember that the GC did not recongize the Republic of Antica because they did not differentiate at the time between the Republic and Dinarchy!) And frankly, I can understand this, as I had lost a nation dear to my heart as well in the past. This is the main part of the problem, one that can be overcome if the past can be mended. And the past can be mended. I know I am probably asking too much, but Kuryalov gave me the following statement:

[12:19 AM] Clan MacGuimont: I'll give you a deal, which you can feel free to bring to Siskind and anyoen esle involved in Shireorth;s decision making:
[12:20 AM] Clan MacGuimont: If Delphi apologizes for infiltrating and deleting Feianova and admits it was wrong of him to do, then I will modify the treaty.
[12:20 AM] Clan MacGuimont: A public apology.

And:

As an additional show of good faith, if this treaty is passed I will change my account's signature and location to something less antagonistic. Could you mention that as well? I want the Landsraad to debate to show that I am serious about this treaty. - Kuralyov

...This is exactly the type of thing I desired for Menelmacar after its destruction, an apology for those who I had felt had ruined it, as well as letting bygones be bygones. It is the very least that could be done to prevent the inevitable rivalry. What if we actually had a fruitful relationship with Lemuria, rather than a rivalry or worse, cold war? There have been a lot of pointless conflicts in the past - I seriously think that we should not start a new one.

Delphi Augustus, I would hope for you to at least consider this proposal before outright refusing it. I speak from the bottom of my heart, as the Archon of Soloralism, to try to be culturally relative for this one occasion so that we can prevent any needless incidents.

Other than that, Lemuria is one of those nifty nations. Its people is filled with longterm micronationalists that we have in general got along with for quite awhile. Sander is well known throughout the micronational community. Kuryalov has been in micronationalism since the time of the PRNSE, and was part of Tymaria with Shireroth. Other than this issue at hand, there is absolutely no need to refuse the recongition of Lemuria. (Remember people - this is recongition, not something more significant like an alliance.)

Edit: As well, there has been a proposed modification to this proposed treaty:

SIXTH, Lemuria shall never participate in an attack upon the holdings of Shireroth.

I will make an effort to visit, and if anyone else posts something as earnest as Bill, i will definitely be moved to make an opinion.

Probably not exactly what wants to be heard, but the truth is this. I didn't delete Feianova, though I did in fact have a hand in it happening. I'm sorry it happened, and in a show of that, I did in fact try to help Lachlan restore the fora after they were deleted, unfortunately to no avail.

Bah! Allright, no treaty then.

Well, since this vote is tied ( ), and it would be better if we restart this anyway, as Praetor, I vote NAY on this treaty. (2) The treaty thus fails 0-2-0. This is so that we can have a new debate period and voting period for the same treaty - Lemurians, please don't kill me.