Shireroth

A bill to modify the Lawbook of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth.

Change clause 3 of section H: Landsraad Votes of Chapter III: Nobles:

3. A Duke receives one vote for every County within zir Duchy, one vote for every subservient Barony within zir Duchy (not counting zir own), an extra two votes for being a Duke, and also receives the pre-alliance votes of zir subservient Barons. These last votes may be leased or gifted back to the subservient Baron according to the contract written up between the two Nobles upon allying.

To:

3. A Duke receives one vote for every County within zir Duchy, one vote for every subservient Barony within zir Duchy (not counting zir own), an extra two votes for being a Duke, and also receives the pre-alliance votes of zir subservient Barons. A Duchy can distribute its votes between its subservient Barons in whatever manner the Duchy desires according to the contract written up between the two Nobles upon allying.

Explanation: Right now I am told a Baron can only have 5 votes. I would like to change this.

I think that instead, the limit on a subservient Baron's votes should be up to half the total number of Votes in the parent Duchy (rounded down), minus one. In the case of independent Baronies, there should still be a limit on votes, to encourage large Baronies to upgrade into Duchies. I have no problem with the Barons, if there are more than one, controlling more than half of the Duchy's votes when taken collectively.

For example, say that Duchy X has 15 votes total. It has a Barony, Y, which deserves lots of votes. Half of 15, rounded down, is 7. So Baron Y could be allotted as many as 6 votes, leaving 9 for the Duke. I feel very strongly that the Duke should always control more votes than any of the individual Barons under him.

I disagree. I think the Landsraad votes should be entirely up the Duke's decision, and always within his control (at least from an external perspective). If he wants to allocate them entirely to his Barons, then so be it. Why should there be such limits on allocation?

Been there, done that, I agree with Hypatia.

Right now Northhold has two baronies, but the other Barony has 3 Counties and my Barony has 2. So according to our contracts, votes should be distributed according to size of the Barony. The point is that the smaller Barony should not get more votes unless we want them to.

I hope you don't mind (Actually it's required of me ) but I am going to edit this bill to bring it to standard Landsraad format.

I agree with Delphi and John. There should be no set limit to vote distrubution within a duchy - said limits should be within the feudal contract. A good reason other than allowing people to do what they want is for another form of emissaries, to allow dukes to give their votes to their barons if they do not want to vote.

This bill does not change the status of votes of independent barons, continuing the advantage of a duchy over a barony.

I actually do believe that it makes sense that no Barony has more clout or political power than its Duchy and we should ensure that by any means necessary. If a situation where this fact must change - Duchies can handle it on a case by case basis, but the general rule must be to draw a clear difference in Duchal and Baronial power.

Even as a lowly Baron I second Rakesh's opinion and assert also my beleif that no indavidual barony, independent or no, should have more power than a duchy proper.

So even if a Duke wills it? Even if the head of a Duchy would rather, either for sub-government purposes or otherwise, have it votes go elsewhere, he should be limited?

lemme see here.....

perhaps if there was a standardized or unnoficial counties to baronies to dukedom ratio, then one vote per county could go to the duke +1 for being a duke, and then duke could distribute as he pleases.

Or

if its an independant barony, the baron gets 1 vote per county,no more, UNLESS that gives him more votes than a duke would have before distribution.

ow, that hurt my brain. but it feels right, the challenge is the county to barony to dukedom ratio then theres the indy baronies... whew. thank goodness i cant vote yet.
by the way hypatia, let me know whats up with that please?

The point is that under this amendment a subservient Barony could only have as much power as the Duke if the Duke willed it. Votes allocated by a Duke (except under contract) are fully revocable, so I don't think we'd have to worry about over-powerful subservient Barons.

Besides, this gives a chance for a Barony-merge to be more a merger of equals, which gives MORE incentive to form Duchies. Right now, the only way to have any real power-sharing is to get married...

Hypothetically under the current system a Duchy can have 50 votes split into two Baronies. One Barony could have 2 counties, and another whatever 40 odd. And the one Baron with all the counties could only have 5 votes....

If a Duke is truly to be the head of his domain, he/she should have the right to make decisions regarding his/her votes.

Allright, you've convinced me.

oooh, actually, i like the way gordon put it, a duke gets 1 vote for being a duke, 1 vote for every barony, and one vote for every county, then distributes as he damn well pleases, much more monarchastic. huzzah.

Not that my lowly voice matters any, but I agree with John and Odie.

Odie?

This bill is now up for vote.

Antya votes YEA. (4)

Kildare votes Aye (11).

HOLY abstains, whether it actually can or not, with 4 votes.

Duchy of Antica proper votes AYE (10).

The Duchy of Northhold votes AYE (10)

(I assume before this passes we have 15 votes, that must be split 10-5, and then after this passes our contract on vote distribution will go into affect with the 8-7 split of our 15 votes)

The Barony of Vorpadal votes yea (5)

AYE (4)

Aye (5).

This vote PASSES 49-0-5.