Greetings from Barbaria

Elder Barbarian · Post by **Elder Barbarian** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:36 am

Hi allI'm new to micro-nations and have founded my own micro-nation called Barbaria.It's based on the theories of an anarchial government. But please don't hate me because we are not really Commies. We're just really laid back and looking to this a hobby for fun and spare time.I'd like to introduce myself to all the micro-nations out there and meet new people.Please come and visit us and check out our new website. I'm sure we can be good friends. :) Elder BarbarianElder of BarbariaVisit our website.

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Sun Jun 16, 2002 3:51 pm

Anarchy does not equal Communism... We like Anarchists... many of us are close to anarchists.. and Yardistan is an Anarchist state ....We ouselves are a state in a larger nation Tymaria. You can open up foreign relations with them..pub44.ezboard.com/btymariaYou can contact me at AIM: Rrakanychan and ICQ: 56036135 and lastly, my email is UECPC@mindspring.com but try ICQing me before emailing. I check it more often. Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

Gryphon Avocatio · Post by **Gryphon Avocatio** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 4:36 pm

Hey! I'm no Commie! How dare you compare anarchy to communism!

Elder Barbarian · Post by **Elder Barbarian** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 4:48 pm

Sorry about the Commie comment. :)You would'nt believe the number of people that accused me of being a Communist when I said I was an Anarchist. :eek: Elder BarbarianElder of BarbariaVisit our website.

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Mon Jun 17, 2002 7:54 pm

Don't worry bout Nick... hehe.. He gets like this... Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

Gryphon Avocatio · Post by **Gryphon Avocatio** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 10:54 pm

AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Wed Jun 19, 2002 10:28 am

See? Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

William Howard · Post by **William Howard** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 11:58 am

Anarchists and communists are very close ideologies no matter how much people try to deny it. Im talking anarchy not 'im not doing what you say Im an anarchist'.Bascialy the aim is the same but we disagree over the method (and a little theory too).But it doesnt matter than much. Across the globe you'll find anarchists and communists marching side by side. William HowardChairmanRepublic of BaracÃ£o"Keep you doped with religion and sex and TVAnd you think you're so clever and classless and freeBut you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see"

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Wed Jun 19, 2002 12:27 pm

Anarchist are people that don't like government. Since Anarchy is a lack of government. Communism is a strong central government... They are the opposite extremes.. Socialism and Anarchy work... Anarchist Commune that works.. instead of using curancy as a basis for the system you just work together to live. I always find communism amusing.. you always say you are against capitalism, but as long as you use currancy you are still in some regard capitalistic. Barter would allow for true communist ideals... Anyhoo...Ignore that, It was just me rambling off some strange notions. And I proly got socialism and communism mixed up with each other. but the basic Idea behind my statements work.The communism practised in micronations is the Soviet type. The type that in my oppinion is not TRUE communism. True communism can work in an anarchistic society where people live in small communes working together to grow food and such. Where trade exsists in barter form, where you trade for what you need with what you have in excess..REad the Mars Tilogy. Robinson does a good job of showing a way that Communism can work. Where bussiness exsists as Co-ops that can't reach a certain size.... good books.. Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

William Howard · Post by **William Howard** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 2:02 am

Communism ISNT a strong central government. The aim of communism is the disappearance of the state and rule by everyone. The aim is a society similar if not the same to an anarchist one.What communists believe is the need for a proletarian state after the bourgeois state has been smashed. This is the stage commonly referred to as socialism, or the first stage of the transition to communism. Socialism IS Communism bascially.Money is simply another way of trading goods btw. We cant just eliminate it tommorow. "REad the Mars Tilogy. Robinson does a good job of showing a way that Communism can work."Read the marx trilogy. Karl does a good job of showing a way that Communism can work. ;) William HowardChairmanRepublic of BaracÃ£o"Keep you doped with religion and sex and TVAnd you think you're so clever and classless and freeBut you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see"

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:18 am

You can do away with money... It is not needed if you are not interested in profit. I have grain.. you need grain.. you have something I need.. so we trade...I don't know what Marx said... I don't know his plan... But If it calls for the methods communism has used to this date.. it is a VERY flawd design. no offence. and if communism is having everyone ruling equally or such... than that IS democracy in its rightful form. since Dirrect Democracy was the first form of it. or the correct form or something. Anarchy is no government. so I don't see how communism and anarchy can be the same. Communism might be a way to get to anarchy perhaps.. but not the same. I don't think we have ever seen a truely anarchist society. Someone has always been a leader. But leads into a phycholgical discusion of how people want leadership. Think bout it, Have we ever seen humans without someone as the "leader" some sence? the alpha male, the presedente, the king. Someone always become the dominent one. whether by their own designs or just by the way society works.And even if they don't act as leader. even if they are simply looked up to, they are then a leader by example or such.Take marx. He wrote something that you all rever as gospel or something. Although the man is long dead you follow his teachings. Thus, he is a leader after death. And someone shall always lead. And I have no clue what my point is now... And I remembered.. I have read some of Marx' stuff. Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

Lord Raglan · Post by **Lord Raglan** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 2:48 pm

But Kaiseress... as to doing away with moneyWhat if I spend a few months working on a computer programming solution for a farmer, who knows why? But the worth of the solution is extremely high, so I would be paid in an amount of 2 tons of wheat. I don't need 2 tons of wheat. I would like processed foods, clothing, electricity, etc. Now, that means I would have to "sell" this food to those that in return give me bread, a shirt, and that electricity. The bother of that would be immense. Maybe they don't want that type of grain or the quality is lower. I don't want to be a reseller of wheat, or eggs or chicken legs if I make a solution for a chicken farmer. That would be chaos and our current system would crash and revert to a simpler version in which we go back to simple commodities. The service industry would basically go out of existence. Nick RaglanTymaria-RS Duke of LothlariaMACH Duke of ItaliaSpecial Assistant to the Prime ExecutiveChief of Defense Staff, TDFDelvenus-Governor of Electrovenus

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Thu Jun 20, 2002 7:31 pm

Congrats... You have now found the inherent flaw.... I have made my point I believe..... Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

Gryphon Avocatio · Post by **Gryphon Avocatio** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 8:00 pm

Communism/DD - Everbody participates in government and everbody is comepletely equal. People agree to enforce laws. Economy=MoneyAnarchy - Nobody participates in government and nobody can tell everbody they are equal. No laws. Econmy=barter/money/anythingYardistani Anarchy - Minimal Government (i.e. Me, which, mind you, is voluntary), People band together in groups and we yell anybody we don't like away as our form of law. Economy=Money/whatever I feel like and we feel like.

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Thu Jun 20, 2002 8:30 pm

3 toothpicks = The Yardistani Cookie3 cookies = the Erb = the US $... I guess.... Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

Lord Raglan · Post by **Lord Raglan** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:00 am

Now what is special about the Yardistani Cookie?Chocolate, nuts, or even M&Ms? Based off a cake-mix? Nick RaglanTymaria-RS Duke of LothlariaMACH Duke of ItaliaSpecial Assistant to the Prime ExecutiveChief of Defense Staff, TDFDelvenus-Governor of Electrovenus

William Howard · Post by **William Howard** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:36 am

Quote: I don't know what Marx said... I don't know his plan... But If it calls for the methods communism has used to this date.. it is a VERY flawd design. no offence. Communism is the aim, socialism is the way of getting there. In the 'socialist' countries like the USSR and China the revolution was betrayed by stalinists *spits*. They kept some of the socialist elements of society which suited them and then ran the place as their own personal kingdoms. Communism isn't meant to be seperate from democracy but aims for true democracy where everybody runs the planet. With the advent of modern technology direct democray is becoming more of a reality along with freedom of information and speech, and the ruling classes will be forced to find new ways to maintain their rule - censorship and monotoring of the internet being an obvious example.Anarchists and communists both agree on the need for the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism and the ruling classes, as such they should work together to achieve these aims. William HowardChairmanRepublic of BaracÃ£o"Keep you doped with religion and sex and TVAnd you think you're so clever and classless and freeBut you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see"

Scott Alexander · Post by **Scott Alexander** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 1:25 pm

I don't know how wise it is to say "Communism itself is a good idea, but the way it inevitably turns out ruins it." It's sort of like saying "Cold fusion is a great idea, it's just that you can never get it to actually happen". If a system pretty much invariably leads to the system collapsing and being replaced with something very very bad, then it's a bad system, no matter how wonderful it would be if it worked. If we want to go into magical happyland, then capitalism creates a state in which everyone can, through hard work, rise and become an industrialist multimillionaire and there's no poverty because competitive companies have driven the price of food, housing, etc. dirt cheap and everyone's happy. Things, of course, do not turn out this way, but isn't it just as possible to say "Capitalism is a great system, it's just that so far it's never worked" as it is to say "Communism is a great system, it's just that so far it's never worked"? What's important isn't what the person who invents a system says it's going to do, it's what it actually turns out doing, and Communism has shown that it, without exception so far, leads to crazy dictators who brainwash their citizens, end up killing large portions of them, and pretty much making an oppressive totalitarianism indistinguishable from fascism. Then leave the wise to wrangle, and with meThe quarrels of the Universe let beAnd in some corner of the hubbub crouchedMake game with that that makes as much with thee!Omar Khayyan, The Rubaiyat

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:19 pm

They are ussually chocolate chip cookies.. Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

Lord Raglan · Post by **Lord Raglan** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 7:06 am

Like the Toll House variety or the home-made kind?regular chocolate chip or white chocolate chip? Nick RaglanTymaria-RS Duke of LothlariaMACH Duke of ItaliaSpecial Assistant to the Prime ExecutiveChief of Defense Staff, TDFDelvenus-Governor of Electrovenus

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:07 pm

Homemade me thinks.. Yes.. homemade normal chocolatechip..... Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

Lord Raglan · Post by **Lord Raglan** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 7:32 pm

excellent... I will need to barter for a few of those. Do you think the Yardistani will be willing to give up a few of those, for umm... umm... some kiwi fruit? :) Nick RaglanTymaria-RS Duke of LothlariaMACH Duke of ItaliaSpecial Assistant to the Prime ExecutiveChief of Defense Staff, TDFDelvenus-Governor of Electrovenus

Gryphon Avocatio · Post by **Gryphon Avocatio** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 8:32 pm

I don't like Capitalism nor do I like Communism...Capitalism results in insanely poor people, insanely rich people and a huge middle class that will dish out money to see a bad movie sequel that was created just to make money off an orignally good idea. Communism I'd like, but people are generally too conceited to work together to make it work, so I don't appreciate it either... NickThe Wandering Yardistani BardHigh Priest of B0O0/\/\ism Come gather 'round peopleWherever you roamAnd admit that the watersAround you have grownAnd accept it that soonYou'll be drenched to the bone.If your time to youIs worth savin'Then you better start swimmin'Or you'll sink like a stoneFor the times they are a-changin'.Come writers and criticsWho prophesize with your penAnd keep your eyes wideThe chance won't come againAnd don't speak too soonFor the wheel's still in spinAnd there's no tellin' whoThat it's namin'.For the loser nowWill be later to winFor the times they are a-changin'.Come senators, congressmenPlease heed the callDon't stand in the doorwayDon't block up the hallFor he that gets hurtWill be he who has stalledThere's a battle outsideAnd it is ragin'.It'll soon shake your windowsAnd rattle your wallsFor the times they are a-changin'.Come mothers and fathersThroughout the landAnd don't criticizeWhat you can't understandYour sons and your daughtersAre beyond your commandYour old road isRapidly agin'.Please get out of the new oneIf you can't lend your handFor the times they are a-changin'.The line it is drawnThe curse it is castThe slow one nowWill later be fastAs the present nowWill later be pastThe order isRapidly fadin'.And the first one nowWill later be lastFor the times they are a-changin'.

Scott Alexander · Post by **Scott Alexander** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 9:01 pm

That's why capitalist systems with insanely high taxes and a welfare state are the way to go. Then leave the wise to wrangle, and with meThe quarrels of the Universe let beAnd in some corner of the hubbub crouchedMake game with that that makes as much with thee!Omar Khayyan, The Rubaiyat

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Sat Jun 22, 2002 9:18 pm

Dah.... Than you get alot of lazypeople...Like me.... Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

Scott Alexander · Post by **Scott Alexander** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 10:27 pm

Well then, you throw in a little bit of Communism like shoot all the lazy people...or a little bit of welfare reform. Preferably the latter, now that I think of it, although the former certainly has its merits. Then leave the wise to wrangle, and with meThe quarrels of the Universe let beAnd in some corner of the hubbub crouchedMake game with that that makes as much with thee!Omar Khayyan, The Rubaiyat

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Sat Jun 22, 2002 11:25 pm

So.... Shoot all the people like me? Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

William Howard · Post by **William Howard** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 9:05 am

Stalinism isn't communism.We still have the after-effects of the cold war and total anti-socialist propoganda. People need to get over that.A socialist society not only can work, but will work when the time comes. People can work together. They are raised in a society which teaches them not to and to try and get ahead, its the world which shapes how we think.Capitalism isn't the way to go. The world today - well, enough said.We just want a world where we are people not machines. William HowardChairmanRepublic of BaracÃ£o"Keep you doped with religion and sex and TVAnd you think you're so clever and classless and freeBut you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see"

Lord Raglan · Post by **Lord Raglan** » Sun Jun 23, 2002 7:15 pm

People will work together. But I guess it is just that people want freedom in how much they want to work. If a person wants to work to just get by, then they will live a nominal life and people are just happy with that. Others want to work as much as possible for they get additional rewards that they want for the additional work, which would not be available to those that didn't work as much.It is just where your priorities are. Forcing wages on people no matter on the quality or matter of the work is detrimental for people will work for what they want and nothing more. Sure, there are greedy people out there, but there are also those that are in poverty by free choice. Nick RaglanTymaria-RS Duke of LothlariaMACH Duke of ItaliaSpecial Assistant to the Prime ExecutiveChief of Defense Staff, TDFDelvenus-Governor of Electrovenus

Kaiseress Viviantia I · Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:43 am

Around my house,..well.. Nick's really.. anyhoo.. there is this homeless guy... the people in the guitar shop call him dreadlocks... because..well... he has them... anyhoo.. he goes in there from time to time and talks and plays guitar.. it turns out he is homeless by his own free will. Kaiseress Viviantia IKaiseress of Shireroth

Shireroth