Shireroth

Right.. I ask for a vote. I wanna make Alex MiniImNat, but I figure I'll make it a vote.. to give you lazy bums.. me included, something to do...So.. how bout it? Alex for MiniImNat? Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

Hyperborea AYE (2) "Scott, you're so evil you should be Babkhan!" - Tahmaseb Shah"In order to find his equal, a Shirerithian is forced to talk to God" = With apologies to Steven Braveheart

Brookshire, Aye. (4) Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

Goldshire votes AYE (4) Jadie of GoldshireCarry on with your lives people...nothing to see here.

I believe this will be a biased decision considering the name of my Barony (Alexandretta)so ABSTAIN (2)

... assuming she wants the job...Kildare AYE (4) Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess of Kildare - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - COME BACK, STEVE!!! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)

Lunaris (2) Aye Baroness of Lunaris in The Republic of ShirerothBaroness-Councilor of Tallandor-New Barbary in Treesia

what's wrong with Biased decisions? Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

We're nobles! We aren't elected, so we don't even look like breaking promises... -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas "You're intense and driven. That can lead to a lot of good things. It can also lead to high blood pressure and a closing of the arteries." -Mr. Mathews -- "I think that people who drive Hummers are clueless, and that they just have enough money to advertise it." -Peter Camejo -- "Skanky-Deutch-Ho-Bag!!" -Mike

Loth, Abstain (6)

BAM votes aye (2)Go Alex!

You abstainers are just trying to cause trouble..hehehehe Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

Lock 'em up... make all the female rabble-rousers join BAM......what??? lol

Oops...I forgot...yardistan: AYE (4) -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas Give me your child, and by the age of five, I can make him a priest or a thief or a scholar.

If my calculations are correct, this vote is closed..today..So the results are:Aye 22Nay 0Abstain 8Aye wins, with a 73% majority. This Vote has passed, well done Minister Decens. Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

Wouldn't that be 100%... Since.. there are NO nays? Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

Majorities are counted out of those who have voted aye or nay...abstains don't factor, otherwise they count towards nay, which is stupid. -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas Give me your child, and by the age of five, I can make him a priest or a thief or a scholar.

Maybe we should put that into the rules so here is not confusion... Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

proly... -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas Give me your child, and by the age of five, I can make him a priest or a thief or a scholar.

No, that's not the way it works.Obviously Abstain doesn't count towards the actual total, and it isn't a Nay vote.BUTIf, say, you had a Vote, on whether...Mondesia is absorbed into Shireroth. Now, the vote is in such a way that Aye has 10% of the vote, Abstain has 60%, and Nay has 30%. Now, obviously neither Nay nor Aye has a majority. But Abstain does. This means that the Vote has neither passed nor failed, and must be reworked to get a less apathetic result.Also, Abstain is a valid vote, after all, and must be counted in the percentage of the total vote. I...realise I may have been doing things slightly cock-wise in my earlier days, but I've given it a bit of thought, being informally banned from giving a real opinion on things anymore. It is worth recording, isn't it, that 35% of the Landsraad voted "Abstain" for making singing fish the official delicacy of the Imperial Republic, just as it is worth recording that 65% voted against?It's still the same, a 50% either way with Aye and Abstain is still a tie, isn't it? Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

In your example above, the bill fails under the shirerohtian system....take this example...40% aye30% abstain30% naythe bill ultimately fails, and the abstains count as nays by default, that is, if we are looking for a majority of all nobles weather or not they voted. Under the way we have traditionally done things, that bill would have passed...because the ayes outweigh the nays...abstains are only statistical....they don't factor into the vote...not voting counts as an abstain as well...part of the precident for this comes from a historically inactive landsraad where people weren't around to vote for things...if we needed a majority of everybody, things would never have gotten done...in a worse case scenario, we could always put up an act to counteract a bill and vote on that if somebody thought the original bill didn't get passed fairly.but yeah...abstains...don't do anything...because if they did, they'd secretly be nay votes... -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas Give me your child, and by the age of five, I can make him a priest or a thief or a scholar.

Nono, that's not how it works. In that case you just presented, the vote passes, because Aye has the highest percentage, and therefore the majority.Well, Nick, if not voting counts as an abstentation, why have that vote at all? Since the Abstain vote is there, and people do use it, I think it needs to be recognised as a valid vote. It means that people are not sure on how to vote, or choose not to. It is an oppurtunity for the preponents and disponents of the Act or Vote to persuade these Abstainers to their respective sides. Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

The point of abstention is to make sure everyone knows you're here (for example, our take on the Hyperborea bill would be MUCH different if Mari had abstained rather than not voted) and to encourage people to change something or compromise to make you vote their way. Or it could be saying that you're a little uncomfortable with the bill but don't quite want to vote against it. "I am a verb" - Buckminster Fuller

Precisely, if Abstain is not to be counted, than it shouldn't be a vote at all. Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

...wait...go back two posts....you said that in my example the bill wins because aye's have the most votes...but you said this bill passes because it has a 78% majority....but all the votes were either nay or abstain. There was nothing counting against the vote, thus the bill passed by 100%...so what if 54% abstain, 46% yea? That bill should pass in this landsraad based on how we've traditionally done things; however, you are suggesting that since yea has less votes than abstain, the bill will not pass. If it doesn't pass, it fails by definition, and so abstain would be nay. Oh gods, I don't even know what I'm talking about...*goes off to get some coffee* -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas Give me your child, and by the age of five, I can make him a priest or a thief or a scholar.

I think what our Prætor is getting at is that if Abstain wins the majority, then the vote will be closed, but the bill will not be archived; it will be reopened for editing and/or discussion...... am I getting this right, Zir? Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess of Kildare - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - COME BACK, STEVE!!! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)

*tries to escape from blatant gaping hole Nick has poked in his logic*Erm....yes...I think that an Act definitively defining the definition of the Abstain vote would be very very useful, though... Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

"but I've given it a bit of thought, being informally banned from giving a real opinion on things anymore." You are allowed to have an oppinion.. I encourage it myself...Who wants to write it? Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

people, proposal and discussion for new ideas is to take place in the Landsraad front gate. Please move this discussion there.This vote passed awhile ago.Closed and archived.*stamp of approval* Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess of Kildare - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - COME BACK, STEVE!!! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)