Shireroth

The Feudal Holdings Act has twice already been through the Landsraad. It first passed unconstitutionally, and then went and sat at the bottom for a few weeks. Here I have just about completely rewritten it. It may be a bit repetitive, but at least now if you have a problem with it, you can point out exactly where it needs to be changed, and we can revise accordingly. So here. I know we would all like to get something like this passed, so don't let it go to waste - - again. Thus I present to you, Feudal Holdings Act.The new and improved version:1. There shall be three levels of Nobles beneath the Kaiser.a) The first level of nobles beneath the Kaiser shall be known generically as Dukes. They shall rule over the major subdivisions of the nation, known generically as Duchies.b) The second level of nobles are beneath both the Kaiser and their respective Dukes. They shall be known generically as Barons, and shall rule over the subdivisions of the Duchies, known generically as Baronies.c) The third level of nobles are beneath the Kaiser, their respective Dukes, and also their respective Barons. They shall be known generically as Counts, and shall rule over the subdivisions of the Baronies, known generically as Counties.d) Dukes, Barons, and Counts may choose to give themselves and their respective subdivisions titles other than the generically recognized ones. These titles should not be intentionally misleading, and are subject to evaluation by any noble above the offender in rank.2. The process of forming and promoting subdivisions shall be as follows:a) Each new County shall require one (1) citizen to be formed. The Counties may be formed from land within a Barony with the direct decree of the ruling Baron. The Landsraad and Kaiser retain veto rights. Counties shall be contained and operated within the fora of their respective Baronies.b) Each new Barony shall require two (2) citizens to be formed. Baronies may be formed from the land within a Duchy with the direct decree of the ruling Duke. The Landsraad must be notified of the creation of the Barony. The Landsraad and the Kaiser retain veto rights. Baronies shall be contained and operated within their own fora, separate from their respective Duchies.c) Each new Duchy shall require four (4) citizens to be formed. Duchies may be formed by order of the Kaiser or of the Landsraad. Both retain veto rights. If a Duchy is formed by order of the Kaiser, it must be as a public Imperial Decree. Duchies are contained and operated in their own fora.d) The procedure for the promotion of a County to Barony or a Barony to Duchy shall follow the criteria and procedures for the creation of a new subdivision.3. The procedure for appointing Nobles shall be as follows:a) A Duke may be appointed by the Landsraad or the Kaiser. A Duke may also be appointed by the popular vote of the peoples of the Duchy, with the Landsraad being notified.b) A Baron may be appointed by the Kaiser, the Landsraad, or the Duke of the ruling Duchy. A Baron may also be appointed by the popular vote of the peoples of the Barony. In all cases, the Landsraad must be notified.c) A Count may be appointed by the Kaiser, the Landsraad, the Duke of the ruling Duchy, or the Baron of the ruling Barony. A Count may also be appointed by the popular vote of the peoples of the County, with the ruling Baron being notified.d) If the Kaiser appoints any noble, it must be as a public Imperial Decree.4. The procedures for removing a Noble are as follows:a) A Count may be removed by any of his ruling Nobles or the Landsraad, with the ruling Baron being notified.b) A Baron may be removed by any of his ruling Nobles or the Landsraad, with the ruling Duke being notified.c) A Duke may only be removed by the Landsraad or by Imperial Decree of the Kaiser. The Landsraad must attain a majority vote of greater than two thirds (2/3) to remove a Duke.d) In all cases, the Kaiser retains veto rights. In order to prevent a person from being appointed to the same position of nobility again, the Kaiser must issue a formal Imperial Decree.5. The procedure for dissolving subdivisions shall be as follows:a) A County may be dissolved by decree of the ruling Baron.b) A Barony may be dissolved by decree of the Kaiser, or a simple Landsraad Majority.c) A Duchy may be dissolved only by an overwhelming Landsraad majority of three quarters (3/4).d) Dissolved subdivisions shall be put in their own separate archives, with all posting rights closed.6. Territories are considered autonomous regions of Shireroth. Each Territory may be granted a forum with its flag and a link to its own board. For all purposes, Territories are considered under the direct supervision of the Kaiser, who may choose to control them directly, or to appoint a governor. Citizens and Nobles of Territories are considered citizens of Shireroth, and nothing more.7. Each Shirithian citizen may choose a specific place of residence for zirself. Zie may specify down to any level so far as city, but if the specification of city is not made, then zie shall officially reside in the capital city of the lowest subdivision specified. No Shirithian shall reside in more than one city at a time, and in order to change residences, a one day travel time from the time of relocation announced shall be observed. In accordance with this, no Shirithian may reside in more than one residence in a day.8. No Shirithian shall rule over more than one subdivision with a single exception. In the event that a subdivision is without a ruling Noble, the ruling Noble of the subdivision above it shall take rule over the vacant subdivision. The citizens of the subdivision shall have one Shirithian week to decide upon a new ruling Noble, after which time, the subdivision goes under the direct control of the Kaiser until a new Noble is appointed. Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

Brookshire Votes Aye... get the fucker over with..heh E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

Question: I see in there that the Laansraad has veto power over the Kaiser in some cases. Is that right? What happened to "The Kaiser(ess)'s word is law!" ? Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

Qua?Missed that... Kaiser has supreme power...or at least should...Abstain.... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

I do not get a vote, but I want to say that I support this. It makes everything clear and definate... But what I don't like in this is that it does put the Landsraad equal to the Kaiser is some cases (like forming a subdivision or appointing the noble) which I find prinically wrong because in Shireroth the Kaiser IS the law and thus the possiblity of the Landsraad being able to oppose the Kaiser is wrong.So, I think we should have that ammended. May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

note the act never says that the kaiser relieves veto rights over the landsraad... it is still law that in any landsraad vote the kaiser can veto, is it not? Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

Hm... that makes sense... at least to me... and although your use of pronouns in that text isn't consistent (you've used both "his" and forms of "zie"), the act's good enough for me. I actually had some reasons to oppose it earlier today but I've forgotten them now so... Straylight votes YEA (two votes). In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to a Finn.

Maybe add a clause restating the Kaiseress can veto anything still... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

Alright... the amendments are in bold:1. There shall be three levels of Nobles beneath the Kaiser.a) The first level of nobles beneath the Kaiser shall be known generically as Dukes. They shall rule over the major subdivisions of the nation, known generically as Duchies.b) The second level of nobles are beneath both the Kaiser and their respective Dukes. They shall be known generically as Barons, and shall rule over the subdivisions of the Duchies, known generically as Baronies.c) The third level of nobles are beneath the Kaiser, their respective Dukes, and also their respective Barons. They shall be known generically as Counts, and shall rule over the subdivisions of the Baronies, known generically as Counties.d) Dukes, Barons, and Counts may choose to give themselves and their respective subdivisions titles other than the generically recognized ones. These titles should not be intentionally misleading, and are subject to evaluation by any noble above the offender in rank.2. The process of forming and promoting subdivisions shall be as follows:a) Each new County shall require one (1) citizen to be formed. The Counties may be formed from land within a Barony with the direct decree of the ruling Baron. The Landsraad and Kaiser retain veto rights. Counties shall be contained and operated within the fora of their respective Baronies.b) Each new Barony shall require two (2) citizens to be formed. Baronies may be formed from the land within a Duchy with the direct decree of the ruling Duke. The Landsraad must be notified of the creation of the Barony. The Landsraad and the Kaiser retain veto rights. Baronies shall be contained and operated within their own fora, separate from their respective Duchies.c) Each new Duchy shall require four (4) citizens to be formed. Duchies may be formed by order of the Kaiser or of the Landsraad. If a Duchy is formed by the order of the Landsraad, the Kaiser retains veto rights. If a Duchy is formed by order of the Kaiser, it must be as a public Imperial Decree. Duchies are contained and operated in their own fora.d) The procedure for the promotion of a County to Barony or a Barony to Duchy shall follow the criteria and procedures for the creation of a new subdivision.3. The procedure for appointing Nobles shall be as follows:a) A Duke may be appointed by the Landsraad or the Kaiser. A Duke may also be appointed by the popular vote of the peoples of the Duchy, with the Landsraad being notified.b) A Baron may be appointed by the Kaiser, the Landsraad, or the Duke of the ruling Duchy. A Baron may also be appointed by the popular vote of the peoples of the Barony. In all cases, the Landsraad must be notified.c) A Count may be appointed by the Kaiser, the Landsraad, the Duke of the ruling Duchy, or the Baron of the ruling Barony. A Count may also be appointed by the popular vote of the peoples of the County, with the ruling Baron being notified.d) In all cases, the Kaiser retains veto rights. If the Kaiser appoints any noble, it must be as a public Imperial Decree.4. The procedures for removing a Noble are as follows:a) A Count may be removed by zir Baron, zir Duke, the Kaiser, or the Landsraad, with the ruling Baron being notified.b) A Baron may be removed by zir Duke, the Kaiser, or the Landsraad, with the ruling Duke being notified.c) A Duke may only be removed by the Landsraad or by Imperial Decree of the Kaiser. The Landsraad must attain a majority vote of greater than two thirds (2/3) to remove a Duke.d) In all cases, the Kaiser retains veto rights. In order to prevent a person from being appointed to the same position of nobility again, the Kaiser must issue a formal Imperial Decree.5. The procedure for dissolving subdivisions shall be as follows:a) A County may be dissolved by decree of the ruling Baron.b) A Barony may be dissolved by decree of the Kaiser, or a simple Landsraad majority.c) A Duchy may be dissolved only by an overwhelming Landsraad majority of three quarters (3/4).d) Dissolved subdivisions shall be put in their own separate archives, with all posting rights closed.e) In all cases, the Kaiser retains veto rights.6. Territories are considered autonomous regions of Shireroth. Each Territory may be granted a forum with its flag and a link to its own board. For all purposes, Territories are considered under the direct supervision of the Kaiser, who may choose to control them directly, or to appoint a governor. Citizens and Nobles of Territories are considered citizens of Shireroth, and nothing more.7. Each Shirithian citizen may choose a specific place of residence for zirself. Zie may specify down to any level so far as city, but if the specification of city is not made, then zie shall officially reside in the capital city of the lowest subdivision specified. No Shirithian shall reside in more than one city at a time, and in order to change residences, a one day travel time from the time of relocation announced shall be observed. In accordance with this, no Shirithian may reside in more than one residence in a day.8. No Shirithian shall rule over more than one subdivision with a single exception. In the event that a subdivision is without a ruling Noble, the ruling Noble of the subdivision above it shall take rule over the vacant subdivision. The citizens of the subdivision shall have one Shirithian week to decide upon a new ruling Noble, after which time, the subdivision goes under the direct control of the Kaiser until a new Noble is appointed. Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

Quote:3. The procedure for appointing Nobles shall be as follows:a) A Duke may be appointed by the Landsraad or the Kaiser. A Duke may also be appointed by the popular vote of the peoples of the Duchy, with the Landsraad being notified.b) A Baron may be appointed by the Kaiser, the Landsraad, or the Duke of the ruling Duchy. A Baron may also be appointed by the popular vote of the peoples of the Barony. In all cases, the Landsraad must be notified.c) A Count may be appointed by the Kaiser, the Landsraad, the Duke of the ruling Duchy, or the Baron of the ruling Barony. A Count may also be appointed by the popular vote of the peoples of the County, with the ruling Baron being notified.d) If the Kaiser appoints any noble, it must be as a public Imperial Decree.Popular Elections? Quois?! That's not feudal... that's democratic... Now, at least it's not replacing.. or removing.. that would be bad... But Nobles AREN"T elected officials in the elected by the people sense.. not that I know... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

Is Greg still around? For that matter, is Fax? I haven't heard much from either of them lately. Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter. - Longchenpa

I'm talking to Greg right now... He's on AIM....right now... and reading things...I guess he's more of the... read things.. post if he has anything to say type right now..anyhoo...I'm pushing for Greg to be Duke, not Fax... Though he is around too.. we discuss stuff all the time... He's not got the best internet access right now... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

Quote:Popular Elections? Quois?! That's not feudal... that's democratic... Now, at least it's not replacing.. or removing.. that would be bad... But Nobles AREN"T elected officials in the elected by the people sense.. not that I know...Ah, thanks for reminding me. That's one of the things I had forgotten... hm... I'll blame... myself, for having an argument with myself about that law (during which I eventually forgot why I opposed it), and Joseph, for making it so long that after reading it a couple of times I would start glossing over the parts that I opposed... In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to a Finn.

ookay... so we want the popular vote outta there? I can do that... just tell me it's out, and it's out. K? Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

Yep. It's outta there. May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

KILL IT ... KIIIIIILLLL IT!!!!!!!!!! ..hehe E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

okay....who is going to take the popular vote out? I am not good at writing laws...so don't look at me....*gets looks from everyone*what??

Sorry peoples, I have been quite busy the past couple weeks with home issues, work issues, relationship issues, play issues, et cetera... but here is the updated proposal, enjoy:1. There shall be three levels of Nobles beneath the Kaiser.a) The first level of nobles beneath the Kaiser shall be known generically as Dukes. They shall rule over the major subdivisions of the nation, known generically as Duchies.b) The second level of nobles are beneath both the Kaiser and their respective Dukes. They shall be known generically as Barons, and shall rule over the subdivisions of the Duchies, known generically as Baronies.c) The third level of nobles are beneath the Kaiser, their respective Dukes, and also their respective Barons. They shall be known generically as Counts, and shall rule over the subdivisions of the Baronies, known generically as Counties.d) Dukes, Barons, and Counts may choose to give themselves and their respective subdivisions titles other than the generically recognized ones. These titles should not be intentionally misleading, and are subject to evaluation by any noble above the offender in rank.2. The process of forming and promoting subdivisions shall be as follows:a) Each new County shall require one (1) citizen to be formed. The Counties may be formed from land within a Barony with the direct decree of the ruling Baron. The Landsraad and Kaiser retain veto rights. Counties shall be contained and operated within the fora of their respective Baronies.b) Each new Barony shall require two (2) citizens to be formed. Baronies may be formed from the land within a Duchy with the direct decree of the ruling Duke. The Landsraad must be notified of the creation of the Barony. The Landsraad and the Kaiser retain veto rights. Baronies shall be contained and operated within their own fora, separate from their respective Duchies.c) Each new Duchy shall require four (4) citizens to be formed. Duchies may be formed by order of the Kaiser or of the Landsraad. If a Duchy is formed by the order of the Landsraad, the Kaiser retains veto rights. If a Duchy is formed by order of the Kaiser, it must be as a public Imperial Decree. Duchies are contained and operated in their own fora.d) The procedure for the promotion of a County to Barony or a Barony to Duchy shall follow the criteria and procedures for the creation of a new subdivision.3. The procedure for appointing Nobles shall be as follows:a) A Duke may be appointed by the Landsraad or the Kaiser.b) A Baron may be appointed by the Kaiser, the Landsraad, or the Duke of the ruling Duchy. The Landsraad must be notified.c) A Count may be appointed by the Kaiser, the Landsraad, the Duke of the ruling Duchy, or the Baron of the ruling Barony. The ruling Baron must be notified.d) In all cases, the Kaiser retains veto rights. If the Kaiser appoints any noble, it must be as a public Imperial Decree.4. The procedures for removing a Noble are as follows:a) A Count may be removed by zir Baron, zir Duke, the Kaiser, or the Landsraad, with the ruling Baron being notified.b) A Baron may be removed by zir Duke, the Kaiser, or the Landsraad, with the ruling Duke being notified.c) A Duke may only be removed by the Landsraad or by Imperial Decree of the Kaiser. The Landsraad must attain a majority vote of greater than two thirds (2/3) to remove a Duke.d) If any Noble loses zir citizenship, zie is removed from office.e) In all cases, the Kaiser retains veto rights. In order to prevent a person from being appointed to the same position of nobility again, the Kaiser must issue a formal Imperial Decree.5. The procedure for dissolving subdivisions shall be as follows:a) A County may be dissolved by decree of the ruling Baron.b) A Barony may be dissolved by decree of the Kaiser, or a simple Landsraad majority.c) A Duchy may be dissolved only by an overwhelming Landsraad majority of three quarters (3/4).d) Dissolved subdivisions shall be put in their own separate archives, with all posting rights closed.e) In all cases, the Kaiser retains veto rights.6. Territories are considered autonomous regions of Shireroth. Each Territory may be granted a forum with its flag and a link to its own board. For all purposes, Territories are considered under the direct supervision of the Kaiser, who may choose to control them directly, or to appoint a governor. Citizens and Nobles of Territories are considered citizens of Shireroth, and nothing more.7. Each Shirithian citizen may choose a specific place of residence for zirself. Zie may specify down to any level so far as city, but if the specification of city is not made, then zie shall officially reside in the capital city of the lowest subdivision specified. No Shirithian shall reside in more than one city at a time, and in order to change residences, a one day travel time from the time of relocation announced shall be observed. In accordance with this, no Shirithian may reside in more than one residence in a day.8. No Shirithian shall rule over more than one subdivision with a single exception. In the event that a subdivision is without a ruling Noble, the ruling Noble of the subdivision above it shall take rule over the vacant subdivision. The citizens of the subdivision shall have one Shirithian week to decide upon a new ruling Noble, after which time, the subdivision goes under the direct control of the Kaiser until a new Noble is appointed.edit: 4d, to make an accord with the Census ability to strip of citizenship... also lets us remove JoeWhit without much qualm... since he's an inactive citizen and will have it revoked at the end of the month anyways... Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.Edited by: Gryphon the Pure at: 8/14/03 10:15 pm

No one said it was your job to rewrite laws.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

no, but as I was technically the one who proposed the issue, I'm taking it upon myself anyways...so peoples... any objections? just to make this objective, here's a motion to vote. any seconds? Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

Second. I assume that means we are starting over voting? E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

Aye....and Aye*laughs*one of those ayes was for the voting...and the other to answer Erik's question.

6 Aye... err. 4.. I keep doing that! E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

6 Yea Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

Aye (6)

sorry took me so long to make this official...but this passes.(I wanted to make sure Greg got his barony *smiles*)But it is now in effect!*moves it to passed bills for reference*