Shireroth

The Ministry of Trade intends to soon propose its plan for the national economy to the Landsraad and Kaiser. Your constructive criticism is appreciated.Quote:All current accounts and funds will be wiped clean.All citizens of Shireroth will receive fifty erb to do what they like with.All new citizens of Shireroth will receive free accounts, but no free money.All foreigners may purchase an account for ten erb. A Shirerithian with whom they are dealing will have to provide the initial start-up money.The Ministry of Trade will open all new accounts itself, by request. No one may open their own account without going through the Ministry.The procedures of the Landsraad will be changed. A commoner may speak or propose legislation for ten erb. Ze may purchase one vote for ten erb (for a total of twenty erb to vote - ten for the vote and ten for the post in which the voting takes place). This is not cumulative - ze may not get five votes for fifty erb. All money collected in this fashion will go to the Treasury.Certain officials - the Kaiser, the Minister of Trade, and the Landsraad by majority vote - may reward individuals who make exceptional contributions to Shireroth with money from the Treasury. Ministers and other officials will not be paid a regular salary.Nowwww...I know this is unorthodox. I know there will be objections. But I think it just might work.To begin, no, it does not threaten the feudal system. First, Dukes have (potentially, until they give them away to Barons) ten votes, whereas commoners paying for the privilege only have one. Even Barons will probably have two or three votes, and, more importantly, their voting and speaking is entirely free. Nobility are still privileged far beyond the lot of the common people.Equally and opposite, no, the influence in the Landsraad that can be bought is not marginal. Before Joseph changed his vote to "no", the Territorial Contiguousness Resolution, which is about as important as they come, was failing by a single vote. Two commoners (one, if the Praetor was on their side) could have changed that around. And although the Front Gate allows a free forum in which to present ideas and bill proposals, nobles don't always read that, and something said there doesn't always have the same effect it would if said in the Landsraad.Are there opportunities for corruption? Gods yes. Obviously special care would have to be taken to deal with foreigners trying to influence the system (obviously, foreigners would not be able to vote no matter how much money they had). But this is a feature, not a bug. If there are allegations of corruption, our judicial system will finally have something to do.Onto the advantages. For once, this actually makes having money worthwhile. It means that we don't have to develop a half-hearted pseudo-economy of people making signatures in order to have activity. People get money via gifts from the government and via other people who pay them for various services rendered. People spend money either giving them to other people for whatever, or paying the government for Landsraad votes.The end result? Commoners finally feel they have some sort of say in the government (without the feudal system being disrupted). The government gets to reward people who do good work in a way that means much more than simply giving them a knightly order. There is a useful common currency that people can use for whatever personal transactions come up. The Ministry of Trade gets a purpose.Suggestions? If you would never support this in a million years even if God Himself came down from the skies and told you to do so, mention that too so I'm not wasting my time if everyone opposes it. But do try and have a better plan, then. Edited by: Scott of Hyperborea  at: 5/10/05 14:26

might work...

I hate you. You're too smart.I would support this. In fact, I'll propose it whenever Scott wants me too. Hypatia's Mom: Yay! I'm legal now.Moose: WE(Shireroth) HAVE NON-NOBLES?![21:11] Bill7D0: It's 9:11 PM. Do you know where your plane is?

THE LANDSRAAD IS A PLACE FOR NOBLES ONLY!!! KNOCK IT OFF!!!!But you knew I was going to say that.Buying your way into government? What are you talking about? Micronational Economies do not work, and now you want to throw one of our oldest functional institutions into the mix on a bet that it might work?Commoners have no place in the Landsraad. They never have had one, and I never want to see them there unless they are officially sent there by their Noble.Gah...I'm getting tired of all of this crazy revisionist stuff. 3e knowe ek that in fourme of speche is chaunge / With-inne a thousand 3eer, and wordes tho / That hadden pris now wonder nyce and straunge / Us thenketh hem, and 3et thei spake hem so, / And spedde as wel in loue as men now do...Edited by: Gryphon Avocatio  at: 5/10/05 15:21

under RL fuedal governments, extreamly rich traders could use their wealth to get a quick whisper in the ear of those in power...

RL feudalism arguments aren't valid. This isn't a normal feudal society. 3e knowe ek that in fourme of speche is chaunge / With-inne a thousand 3eer, and wordes tho / That hadden pris now wonder nyce and straunge / Us thenketh hem, and 3et thei spake hem so, / And spedde as wel in loue as men now do...

Quote:The Landsraad is a place for nobles only! Knock it off!The Landsraad is indeed a place for nobles. That is why nobles will have ten times as many votes as commoners and be able to speak on a much more consistent basis. Quote:But you knew I was going to say that.Yup. The last sentence of the top post was there just for you.Quote:Buying your way into government? What are you talking about? Micronational Economies do not work, and now you want to throw one of our oldest functional institutions into the mix on a bet that it might work?Micronational economies do, indeed, not work. That is why we have to try something drastic if we want a chance. Worst case scenarios are:1. The economy is a failure and inactive and no one uses it. The Landsraad continues exactly how it did before. Eventually I, or someone else, surreptitiously sweeps all signs this ever happened under the carpet. Damage done: zero.2. The economy is a stunning success. Those commoners who make major contributions to Shireroth occasionally get a voice in the Landsraad, and Shireroth's economy is the envy of the micronational world. Damage done: maybe some moral damage that commoners can use the Landsraad, but it ends out with Shireroth active, a booming economy, and everyone happy.I fail to see a way either of these scenarios could cause damage or ruin anything.Quote:Commoners have no place in the Landsraad. They never have had one, and I never want to see them there unless they are officially sent there by their Noble.You are one of the most logical people I know. So surely you realize that there is a big philosophical gap between "X is not the way things were done in the past" and "We should not do X in the future". I welcome your reasoning why commoners should never be allowed in the Landsraad, but unjustified assertions are...unjustified.Quote:Gah...I'm getting tired of all of this crazy revisionist stuff.And I am getting tired of nothing having been revised in Shireroth for the past three or four years, despite it being obvious that unless we change something, we are never going to get better and might well end up getting worse. Jos mikaan ei muutu, kaikki vain jatkuu, loputtomasti samaa.

Scott, I think it looks really good.After some time bouncing around General, I'd probably support it in the landsraad (in the debates and with a tie-breaker vote, if nothing else *looks at Joe*). If it utterly fails, though, I still have that other economy idea that I'd love to work with you on. Yours is way simpler, though, so I'm hoping yours works out. *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

If the Landsraad is not a place for the commoners, why do we even have a Front Gate? Hypatia's Mom: Yay! I'm legal now.Moose: WE(Shireroth) HAVE NON-NOBLES?![21:11] Bill7D0: It's 9:11 PM. Do you know where your plane is?

I support it, I think every ex-mini trade SHOULD support it.

One problem I have: What incentive do Nobles, i.e. 50%+ of the Shirithian population right now, have to make money? And if they're not getting paid by the government, are they allowed to tax their subjects?Which opens up doors for religious tithings as well...lalala.I like it.Except for the whole it-undermining-my-AR-proposal-sort-of-but-in-a-good-way. But that's nothing new. Gryphon the Pure- Shirithian Elder - Dutch of Kildare - Minister of the Interior - High Priest of Apostrophe aka Grammar Fuhrer - Director of the Shirithian Census - Imperial Advisor -q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);

the motive they have is to use the cash to get commaners to do stuff/bribe them to vote their way

Scott, you already know what I think about the Landsraad. It ought to be kept small and simple. We don't need to add anything to it. Believe me, if I had my way it would still be one Duke, one vote. We've all seen micronations get clogged up with too much beaurocracy, and I believe firmly that the only micronations that work well are those that have a strong central leader and a very limited number of people in the government who are capable of making decisions. Those people get those positions because the central leader decides they are capable and not because they are elected.(This is, in simplified form, the Metzler Micronational Political Theory, a philosophy I have been following since Erik and I first put it together).Thus, I truly and wholly believe that we should keep commoners out of the Landsraad, no matter how small a contribution they'd be allowed to make. Thusfar the nation has survived and prospered on this system. Don't you dare try to tell me that the nation isn't active right now. It is.I also just generally oppose Micronational economies. I haven't seen one really work in my four years. I consider them a waste of time and energy and prefer to see more work put into the politics and culture of the nation. I applaud you for coming up with yet another system that you think will work. Unfortunately it hinges on expanding the Landsraad, and that falls under the penumbra of things I politically oppose.Letting people into the Landsraad is in my mind risky. It throws the political balance. It allows the rich and not necesarily the deserving a into the politics of the Nation. People who opt out of the economy are left out (and there is at least some history of people doing so). And, as things tend to go, "you give a inch and they'll take a mile". It doesn't always happen, but I prefer to err on the side of caution. The history of the Landsraad has been to let more and more people in during the past 2 1/2 years. I think it's prudent to cut it now. If we start letting commoners in who have money, it's a good way to start letting in any commoners."Unless we change something, we are never going to get better and might well end up getting worse." I beg to differ. I don't think that there's anything really wrong. I think that all the proposed changes of late are going to make things worse. You don't have to agree with me, but that's how I feel. 3e knowe ek that in fourme of speche is chaunge / With-inne a thousand 3eer, and wordes tho / That hadden pris now wonder nyce and straunge / Us thenketh hem, and 3et thei spake hem so, / And spedde as wel in loue as men now do...

That's great, Nick, except that the arguments of late (Many of them going on in the infinate chat, which I can't remember seeing you in, though you might've) have been caused by the fact that the culture and politics you speak of have all been made. We've gotten as far as it can get interesting, and now we need something else to do. Yardistan may be, as Greg put it, "The Old Guard" by refusing a lot of the newer reforms, but this one is sufficiently nifty to give it a try.This may not solve any huge problems, but it's a sound idea with little consequence if it fails. Hell, you can negate the votes of three commoners yourself if you wanted to, and those commoners will only be able to use their (1) voting power five times before they have to scrounge up money for another vote.I say we let the man try this. Hypatia's Mom: Yay! I'm legal now.Moose: WE(Shireroth) HAVE NON-NOBLES?![21:11] Bill7D0: It's 9:11 PM. Do you know where your plane is?

I don't like the fix rates systems...A commoner does not need to be in the Landsraad. All he has to do is to approach a noble, say "psst, ill give you this much money if you vote yes for that bill". Supply and demand would dictate the price. Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti

Gryphon:Quote:One problem I have: What incentive do Nobles, i.e. 50%+ of the Shirithian population right now, have to make money? And if they're not getting paid by the government, are they allowed to tax their subjects?Take the TCR again for example. You have forty spare . You gift it to two supporters of the TCR (Bill and Harvey, for example), under the condition that they use it to vote. They do, and TCR passes.OR, you want a specific favor (say you want David to make you a script). You offer David 40 to program it for you, and he has every incentive to take it because he, as a commoner, wants the votes it implies. Thus, you can use the money to buy products and services from commoners (and from other nobles, when you iterate the system another step).It's like the US economy formerly being based on gold. Not everyone wanted gold, but everyone knew that people who did want gold would be willing to trade them other things they did want for the banknotes, so the economy was worthwhile.The other Gryphon:Quote:I believe firmly that the only micronations that work well are those that have a strong central leader and a very limited number of people in the government who are capable of making decisions. Those people get those positions because the central leader decides they are capable and not because they are elected.I believe this too. Shireroth needs a strong, absolute-power-y Kaiser, and technically, it ONLY needs a Kaiser to make decisions. The Ministries are there to make decisions at a level so detailed for the Kaiser wouldn't have time to deal with all of them. The Landsraad is there partly to supplement the Kaiser and give him advice and partly to placate other citizens who wouldn't be happy if there was only one worthwhile position in the entire country. I don't believe anything done to the Landsraad would hurt the centralized structure of Shireroth as long as the Kaisership was intact.Quote:(This is, in simplified form, the Metzler Micronational Political Theory, a philosophy I have been following since Erik and I first put it together).I talked to Erik about this economy concept, and he actually supports it (which shocked me no less than it probably shocks you). If you and he are discussing micronations at any point (which I hope you are not, because he doesn't need it) bring it up and hear what he has to say.Quote:I also just generally oppose Micronational economies. I haven't seen one really work in my four years. I consider them a waste of time and energy and prefer to see more work put into the politics and culture of the nation. I applaud you for coming up with yet another system that you think will work. Unfortunately it hinges on expanding the Landsraad, and that falls under the penumbra of things I politically oppose.Everything fails until it works. Micronational cartography was as much a running joke and watchword for failure in 2000 as micronational economies are in 2005. After about ten abortive attempts we learned enough to get the Cartography Society working and now it is a huge success and one of Shireroth's greatest contributions to the world stage. Recwars almost always used to fail, but SNARL seems to be making progress in removing that truism too.Quote: I don't think that there's anything really wrong. I think that all the proposed changes of late are going to make things worse. You don't have to agree with me, but that's how I feel.I don't think there is anything really wrong either, but I also don't think there is anything really right. Since Shireroth has no real reason to exist, if we just accept the status quo we won't do anything, we'll stop posting, and the country will disappear. That's why we have to always be trying new things and attempting to get better.RicQuote:I don't like the fix rates systems...A commoner does not need to be in the Landsraad. All he has to do is to approach a noble, say "psst, ill give you this much money if you vote yes for that bill". Supply and demand would dictate the price.Hm. Institutionalized bribery...it works for the Italians and it can work for us! But I do see one problem, which is that in your system, the nobles would end out with the money, rather than the government. This makes it very hard to ensure the government has a constant cash flow and to assure timely redistribution. It also emphasizes the problem Gryphon has, which is that that the nobles have no particular reason to want money. Bribing other nobles MIGHT be a tenuous escape from this, but it certainly wouldn't be as effective as paying off commoners would be, and this system hinges on the nobles needing it. This also means that on an important law, which is the only one commoners will want to spend money on, the nobles are much more likely to have made up their mind and not be willing to budge. And finally, it threatens the general pseudodemocratic process of commoners trying to get the noble in their own duchy to vote their way. "Whenever I hear the word 'culture', I reach for my revolver." - Herman Goering

Well, we can have a bribery tax I do understand you, but buying actual votes is a bit... dodgy. Bribery is more fun. We could have a bribery law that if a bribery contract has been written between two parties, it has to be followed. If not, Courts. Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti

Buying votes is not really dodgy at all. Many countries (I think parts of Britain used to be among them) had a poll tax which was essentially buying votes. Bribery just seems too likely to not work because not enough nobles are interested in being bribed or care about the money - the curse of all economies - whereas the plan I've lain out seems more foolproof.

As an addition to allow money to go back to the government, why not have the government (Well, the Kaiser, technically) tax the Dukes? Thus, this will be an incentive for Dukes to earn besides the points that you have already mentioned (And encourage taxes on baronies/commoners). Just a suggestion.Other than that? I like this idea. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismQuillan Fatebane, 65th Paladin, Lanys Tvy'l Server (EQ1)Quillan Umbarcotumo, 37th Paladin, Innothule Server (EQ2)Proud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="Why do I need some cheese?";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock. - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'As for... Quil, to be honest many of us have wondered about [him] for some time now. The real question might be why he LEFT the lance there.' - Areania, on how Quillan (Bill in EQ1) let Trombonius 'sit' on his lance"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

The more taxes we place on people, the less people are going to participate in the economy. Period.And Scott, I finally found a fatal flaw in your proposed system: EzBoard doesn't allow us to limit posts in certain fora, and the only restriction on Landsraad voice we have right now is that only Moderators can speak. If every citizen with 10€ to his name could pay it to speak in the Landsraad, we'd be essentially making every citizen a moderator of the Landsraad, which makes a whole bunch of security holes. Not to mention that to limit it to one post, we'd have to have someone with Admin constantly monitoring the Landsraad in order to remove posting priviledges as soon as anyone who payed to speak posted.This really can't work without some more autonomous system for the Landsraad.I'm not liking this proposal anymore. Gryphon the Pure- Shirithian Elder - Dutch of Kildare - Minister of the Interior - High Priest of Apostrophe aka Grammar Fuhrer - Director of the Shirithian Census - Imperial Advisor -q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);

Solution: Any citizen wishing to propose something or vote on something will just do it at the front gate, and MiniTrade or an appointed watcher will check for the transaction and then propose it for them. Hypatia's Mom: Yay! I'm legal now.Moose: WE(Shireroth) HAVE NON-NOBLES?![21:11] Bill7D0: It's 9:11 PM. Do you know where your plane is?

Alternate solution - the Landsraad is an open forum, but it is made very clear to everyone that they are not allowed to post in it unless they pay the money. If someone does, they get fined or punished or warned or whatever.

Moose: That makes it no different from what is already set up, except that it's the MiniTrade instead of the Prætor.Scott: No. Just. No. Gryphon the Pure- Shirithian Elder - Dutch of Kildare - Minister of the Interior - High Priest of Apostrophe aka Grammar Fuhrer - Director of the Shirithian Census - Imperial Advisor -q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);

Gryphon: Why not? It would save the ruckus of having to moderate it in the first place. Nobles complain whenever they lose or gain access in the first place....and I believe that even if commoners would not be able to vote, the nobles should have a duty of being the voice of their commoners of their Duchy or Barony. Shireroth IS a Republic, given by the name "Imperial Republic", you know. ...and if not - honestly, why shouldn't this be the philosophy? There's no real superiority of me over, say, Gryphon - It's not like I'm an actual farmer or something to that extent, or fictionally stupid akin to a serf. The nobles arn't "superior" to me in a way to have a reason to not listen to me - I'm a citizen too. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismQuillan Fatebane, 65th Paladin, Lanys Tvy'l Server (EQ1)Quillan Umbarcotumo, 37th Paladin, Innothule Server (EQ2)Proud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="Why do I need some cheese?";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock. - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'As for... Quil, to be honest many of us have wondered about [him] for some time now. The real question might be why he LEFT the lance there.' - Areania, on how Quillan (Bill in EQ1) let Trombonius 'sit' on his lance"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

Joseph brings a valid concern. This opens the system to possible fraud if a person isn't caught not paying, and knowing how well things are communicated in the nation.The person excepting the funds would have to be the Praetor.Wait why am I helping? BOO!! 3e knowe ek that in fourme of speche is chaunge / With-inne a thousand 3eer, and wordes tho / That hadden pris now wonder nyce and straunge / Us thenketh hem, and 3et thei spake hem so, / And spedde as wel in loue as men now do...

I don't think it would be a problem for the Praetor to monitor the Landsraad to see if any commoners post or vote there. Just file a report or something from the posts (PRH, it can't be hard considering the work the Praetor already has to do). Simple. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismQuillan Fatebane, 65th Paladin, Lanys Tvy'l Server (EQ1)Quillan Umbarcotumo, 37th Paladin, Innothule Server (EQ2)Proud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="Why do I need some cheese?";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock. - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'As for... Quil, to be honest many of us have wondered about [him] for some time now. The real question might be why he LEFT the lance there.' - Areania, on how Quillan (Bill in EQ1) let Trombonius 'sit' on his lance"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

Shireroth is NOT a republic. Republic implies that there are elected representatives. I had a lot of discussions with Erik over the name "Imperial Republic". He claimed that it was the system which described how our government worked, that is, people appointed by the imperial leader govern over groups of citizens. It worked in reverse of the normal republic, and I always felt that the name was inappropriate. Note, I never refer to Shireroth as the "Imperial Republic of Shireroth". This is because it is not a republic.As it is, nobles are not required to represent their citizens because they aren't elected to do so. I agree they should, but there is nothing that makes them. 3e knowe ek that in fourme of speche is chaunge / With-inne a thousand 3eer, and wordes tho / That hadden pris now wonder nyce and straunge / Us thenketh hem, and 3et thei spake hem so, / And spedde as wel in loue as men now do...

Quote:As it is, nobles are not required to represent their citizens because they aren't elected to do so. I agree they should, but there is nothing that makes them.If you think they should, why do you act so stubborn on sticking to the status quo to not change it, then? Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismQuillan Fatebane, 65th Paladin, Lanys Tvy'l Server (EQ1)Quillan Umbarcotumo, 37th Paladin, Innothule Server (EQ2)Proud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="Why do I need some cheese?";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock. - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'As for... Quil, to be honest many of us have wondered about [him] for some time now. The real question might be why he LEFT the lance there.' - Areania, on how Quillan (Bill in EQ1) let Trombonius 'sit' on his lance"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

As someone who's experimented with a fair share of micronational economic systems, I say go for it. As long as you can make the system simple, it's definitely worth taking a chance and trying. If you don't try and innovate, you are guaranteed to rot away.

Personally, I see two things that other people have missed:1. Why not create a second, locked forum ("The Merchantraad", if you will), and grant people access to it only after they have paid for their vote, allow them the one post, and then remove their access? It does require someone with admin to help them out, but that's really never been a problem I've run into.2. Why do Nobles want money? So they can bribe peasants to vote to their choosing. I think it's pretty straightforward. You want money so you can vote, so I want money so I can give it to you and tell you how to. And who would have thought that my fate, it would conjure this twist in the road on which I have wandered?Each vision and dream now completely dismembered, to give one's whole life and find nothing's remembered...And what good is a life that leaves nothing behind? Not a thought or a dream that might echo in time