SPEARheading Our Future

[Draco the Tainted]

Hear the fuck hear. Heil Loki!!!
Heil H'Graa!!!

[Emperador Augustin]

You really have too much free time on your hands. You need a hobby. Like a woman. Yes, Scott, go find a woman! Quote:Finally, you might ask - if we are in both the Mango-Camel Pact and SPEAR, what do we do if the two of them go to war?Declare yourselves neutral like any sane fencesitter does!I'll pick the rest of your whining apart after I go make some tea...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Quote:You really have too much free time on your hands. You need a hobby. Like a woman. Yes, Scott, go find a woman! Physician, heal thyself. "Whenever I hear the word 'culture', I reach for my revolver." - Herman Goering

[Kaiser Alejian I]

Why is when anyone is close to being right, people bring up the 'no life' attack? *shakes head*

[Chimaera the Wise]

Quote:You really have too much free time on your hands. You need a hobby. Like a woman. Yes, Scott, go find a woman!Quote:I, Scott Siskind, will get a girlfriendI, Scott Siskind, will get a girlfriendI, Scott Siskind, will get a girlfriendI, Scott Siskind, will get a girlfriend and cure cancer.I, Scott Siskind, will get a girlfriend, cure cancer, and make Shireroth the world's foremost superpower.I, Scott Siskind, will get a girlfriend, cure cancer, make Shireroth the world's foremost superpower, and become an immortal being of pure energy.Okay...no...seriously...I should give this a chance...must...resist...urge...to use...power...for evil...I, Scott Siskind, will get a girlfriendI, Scott Siskind, will get a girlfriend(repeat a few more times)Yes...and our new motto shall be...Scott's LiveJournal...fulfilling all desires with absolutely no work, so you don't have to. You must only try to realize the truth - There is no sig.

[Emperador Augustin]

It's not an attack. It's an observation.Besides, I was joking, so cool your heels.

[Delphi]

We all have too much free time... unfortunately for me, Scott's free time allows him to craft beautiful speeches like this, after which an amateur like myself can't follow.

[Kaiser Alejian I]

I am very much interested in seeing an official reply from the GC. Not because i'm against them per se, but he brings up some interesting points.

[Greg Johnston]

Programmers aren't known for being eloquent, Delphi, so we're in luck. greg johnston

[Scott of Hyperborea]

One month ago, the Babkhans set up an international pact called the Grand Commonwealth. For some reason, they declined to invite their longest and best allies, Shireroth. A scandalous rumor-monger might say this involved Babkhan attempts to dominate the Commonwealth, and that inviting a nation of equal size and prestige would prevent it from being a set of de facto Babkhan colonies. Of course, the Babkhans have denied this, so it cannot be true. Since Babkha would never voluntarily exclude its strongest ally from such an organization, the only explanation is that they forgot all about us. This was quite a feat, as the head of the Commonwealth's organization team was a Baron and Minister in Shireroth, but it appears to have happened. In an equally amazing stroke of bad luck for us, the two Treesians who were also loyal Shirerithian citizens, namely Eoin and myself, were quietly blocked from the Treesian forum they usually had access to while the planning for the alliance was going on. A lesser, more suspicious man might think that in fact Babkha was trying to keep its actions secret from its greatest ally, perhaps with malicious intent. But Rakesh says the Babkhans are still allies. And Rakesh is an honorable man.When we chatted about the Grand Commonwealth last month, Iain told me that one of his intentions in creating it was to serve as "a counter to growing Shirerithian power". I believe Ardashir was around at the time and neither confirmed nor denied this analysis. But since the Babkhans would of course feel no need to counter the power of their age-old ally, it must have just been a random outburst prompted by the alcohol that had been flowing so freely that day. During the opening ceremonies of the Commonwealth, Ardashir announced in a semiofficial speech his hope that the new association would "bring sovereign micronations together under one common banner, one to rival and surely eclipse Shireroth, for mutual benefit." But of course, knowing how much he loves and wants to help Shireroth, this must have been another unfortunate incident of alcohol doing strange things to the head. For Rakesh says the Babkhans still are allies. And Rakesh is an honorable man.The first actions of the Grand Commonwealth were ones aimed specifically against Shireroth. They created a Strategic Planning Unit which would create a long term plan to bring the world under GC domination. They annexed Audentior and attempted to annex Ptia, two places which have loads of meaning to Shirerithians but about which Babkhans could, with a few exceptions *waves to Amir*, not care less. They continued to boast about their ability to eclipse Shireroth in the near future. These would seem to be very anti-Shireroth actions. But Rakesh says the Babkhans still are allies. And Rakesh is an honorable man.When I asked Iain point-blank why he could not allow Babkha's greatest friend and the country that he was supposed to be foreign minister for to help with or even know about the GC, he said that he "wanted to surprise us" because he knew we enjoyed surprises. Well, my mother always used to say that if someone does something nice for you, you need to do something nice to them in exchange. So to all those Babkhans who just learned about SPEAR, I say: SUPRISE!!!But it should not have come as such a surprise to you. You have said, and rightly, that one of the things that gives Shireroth a unique and important place in international diplomacy is that we are viewed as a fair and somewhat neutral intermediary between Babkha and places like Antica and Attera. Unfortunately, as it stands, we are neither fair nor neutral. We have an alliance with Babkha, and only basic peace treaties with Attera and Antica. You seem to want us to continue our alliance with you, and consider that to be "neutrality". In order to truly be balanced with feet on both sides of the gap, we also need an alliance with Antica and Attera. I think you will agree this is only fair.The Shirerithian alliance with Babkha was based on mutual trust between equals. As soon as Babkha gained some power, it immediately started betraying this trust by doing its best to subvert Shirerithian interests. It believed, possibly correctly, that it could get away with this because it was bigger. In order to restore an alliance of equals with Babkha, the only solution for Shireroth is to find its own friends to support it in the same way that Babkha did.The lack of polarization in the micronational world recently has been to the credit of the mature powers who have worked on internal, friendly issues rather than trying to gain power in an aggressive fashion. Babkha, in forming the Grand Commonwealth, broke that stroke of good luck. They threatened Santa Gertrudis, drove a wedge between themselves and Shireroth, revived the old animosity with Attera, and even caused normally peaceful nations like Natopia to be concerned. Since Babkha has chosen to take brinksmanship like action, and since apparently our alliance with Babkha is not enough to assure us of its good intentions, it is necessary for us to restore the balance of power. Just as Iain and Babkha felt it necessary to counter growing Shirerithian power, so we may find it necessary to counter growing Babkhan power.In case you can't tell, I am not recommending breaking off the Mango-Camel Pact. I still think it is important that we retain close and friendly ties with Babkha. Unfortunately, Babkha has proven that they respect only strength, and that the only way to be their friends rather than their servants is from a position of strength at least equal to theirs. If it is not a violation of Babkha's alliance to create an organization to counter us, it is certainly not a violation of our alliance to create an organization to prevent ourselves from being countered. It would be a wonderful world if we could rely entirely on Babkha's goodwill to maintain our warm relations with them. But this is not such a world.Right now, smaller nations must either stick it out on their own against giants like the Grand Commonwealth, or else join an unfair, top-heavy organization such as the GC. SPEAR is a group for nations that want to remain in charge of their own destination, for nations that, like Shireroth, have an independent streak in their nature but want to make sure they have friends to call on in case of a time of need, a time that aggressive nations like the GC make all too likely. SPEAR is not an anti-Babkhan organization. It is an anti-anyone-who-messes-with-SPEAR organization. If the Babkhans leave us alone, they have absolutely nothing to fear from it, and can continue excellent relations with us, including the Mango-Camel Pact. If the Babkhans don't leave us alone, well, then we'll be glad to have SPEAR's support, won't we?The ideal of the Babkhans is an alliance in which they can make whatever backroom deals they want without telling us, but as soon as we try something similar we have "betrayed" them. It is a neutrality where we must remain allied with them but cannot ally with anyone on the other side. It is a "pacifist world order" where Babkha can make whatever aggressive expansionist moves they want, but anyone attempting to stop them is somehow causing polarization and opposing peace.The ideal of SPEAR is a community of nations that make certain no one country can attain dominance or, that if they do so by fair means, they are prevented from using their dominance to oppress others. It is an ideal where countries can negotiate on equal terms rather than trying to make every alliance into a master-slave partnership. It is an ideal where balance of power means a world where power is actually evenly balanced. Finally, you might ask - if we are in both the Mango-Camel Pact and SPEAR, what do we do if the two of them go to war? The answer is...I have no friggin' clue, and neither does anyone else. This seems like as good an incentive as any for all Shirerithians to prevent war between the two entities, something which should be our goal anyway. Edited by: Scott of Hyperborea  at: 5/31/05 16:04

[VA Foghorn]

Scott, as stated by another Shiririthian, was involved in drafting the charter, and went to great lengths to ensure that Shireroth would not be maliced if accepted.Furthermore, the Grand Commonwealth is nothing more than a group of nations agreeing to be ruled and dominated by Babkha without actually calling it Babkha. The member nations do not retain their individual governments, but instead are rolled into the gigantic (and horribly named) GC legislature. SPEAR is more like a micronational NATO. It only serves to strengthen the defense capabilities of the member nations in times of need, and has a completely hands-off approach to the individual nation's governments.

[Harvey the Blue]

If SPEAR is so good and pure and innocent, why was it kept hidden? Why is everyone running around because it was "leaked early"?And don't give me the whole "so the GC wouldn't know" excuse. I couldn't care less about the GC. I want to know what alliances my nation is entering into. Better the GC know then the supposed members be left out. Even our Lord Kaiser was left in the dark. Harvey SteffkeSai'Kar's Memories LiveJournal - ranting about Shirerothian issues since fall 2004.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

The Kaiser was not kept in the dark. See my response to his thread in Kaiser's Court. No one in SEP was kept in the dark, for the same reason. People out of SEP were kept in the dark precisely because enough of them are dual citizens or just have big mouths that there was no guarantee the information wouldn't get to the GC. The idea was to finish a rough draft and then propose it to people and let them debate it. This was...kind of...done. We are debating it now. The Landsraad would be deciding upon it as we speak if it had not been vetoed.

[Harvey the Blue]

It was vetoed because the Kaiser was left in the dark! He felt betrayed by our involvement in this matter without his explicit knowledge and decided to veto the SPEAR until more information came to light.I am also personally offended, because I fall into the category of people you totally ignored: the people that don't have SEP access but aren't dual citizens. I see this SPEAR as nothing more then a triumph of the Old Boy's Club. Congratulations on your secret plotting and your assumptions that we would just accept whatever you decide. I hope it gets you nowhere. Harvey SteffkeSai'Kar's Memories LiveJournal - ranting about Shirerothian issues since fall 2004.

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Scott, though I am not opposed to SPEAR, my only major question is why Greg knew nothing about this until yesterday. He seemed as surprised as anyone else was, and he was gone this weekend, coming back to the whole nation up in arms.Why was our Kaiser not informed and intimately involved in the formation of SPEAR?!?!?! *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[Scott of Hyperborea]

For what will almost certainly not be the last time, he WAS informed! Look! Here's the post that was in SEP!Quote:So... I suppose I could have created another thread for this (this being what I'm about to say) but I'll spare you the forum space and start here... We should do something about this. There are a number of Anticans calling for a response (they have been for a week or so now) to the commonwealth, they want a counter-commonwealth of sorts, but a hell of a lot better, and with better, actually active nations, and not necessarily centered around one nation (as this new one is with Babkha). We want a military and political bloc, consisting of a group of nations with common interests and varying tenures in the micronational community. Sounds utopian, eh? Anyway, Antica obviously would like to take part and we can probably get in Natopia and Lavalon, and possibly Attera, since there's nothing Attera loves more than blocs than blocks countering Babkha , but we would really like to see Shireroth if possible. I'm sure there'll be plenty of skepticism about this so fire away but I really think it could be beneficial to both the new... thing that is created, and for Shireroth as well.The Kaiser (or Ravius Totarisi, who I think is the Kaiser's alter ego) responded to this, proving he had seen it. So can we stop the "the Kaiser wasn't informed!" stuff already! Harvey's point about him not being informed is all nice and well, but the Kaiser and everyone else with SEP access knew.

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Ok, fine, so he was informed that the idea was sort of in the works. He may have been getting updates, but of course, I have no reason to have SEP access, and don't know for sure. Still, his apparent surprise over the leak brings up the second half of my question:Quote:and intimately involved in the formation of SPEAR?!?!?! *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[Harvey the Blue]

PAH! Not acceptable, Scott! You say SURPRISE to the GC? Well, you also said surprise to Shireroth!I reject the GC, and I reject SPEAR. Both organizations claim to be councils of equals that will bring peace and stability and free spicy chicken to the far corners of the microworld, but the fact is that nobody bothered to ask us what WE wanted until it was too late. The GC is already established. SPEAR is already written. Where is Shireroth's input? What if we don't like something? Is that just too bad?*throws bricks* Get both of them gone. I am more then willing to stand up for Shireroth and withstand being eclipsed, but any organization that feels the need to hide in shadows until it is forced into the public eye and then defend itself with speeches in an attempt to repair their brused PR is not for us. If Attera, Antica, and Natopia want to talk, let's talk. But let's do it in the open. Harvey SteffkeSai'Kar's Memories LiveJournal - ranting about Shirerothian issues since fall 2004.Edited by: Harvey the Blue  at: 5/31/05 16:45

[Draco the Tainted]

From a conversation with one of the Antican representatives: "Your Kaisers change too frequently as to have one as a delegate"If you ask me, I think he's right. Heil Loki!!!
Heil H'Graa!!!

[Rakesh86]

Very good Scott, you delivered as I expected. I would love respond now but I have a date with milady tonight - so hopefully something by the morning.

[Harvey the Blue]

He doesn't need to be a delegate. He just needs to be in the loop. Our Lord Kaiser insists that one post made a month ago with no follow-up does not constitute as involvement. If Scott was part of this delegation then he should have been able to give an update every, oh, week or two? Just a simple "Hey, we're still arguing over wording, but we haven't given up on this" would have been pretty nice. Harvey SteffkeSai'Kar's Memories LiveJournal - ranting about Shirerothian issues since fall 2004.

[Kaiser Alejian I]

Draco: That offends me. Why not make Scott Kaiser then, since he doesn't change so often.: -->:">

[Draco the Tainted]

You're missing the point, milord. It was not an attack at you but a statement of fact in the way Shireroth is ran. Kaisers traditionally reign for periods of anywhere from a few weeks to a handful of months. It is rare that a Kaiser will live and reign long enough to see both the birth and the golden age of any nation or merger.In fact, it was only days after the proposal was made that the Kaisership changed hands. Were the Kaiser to have been the delegate, he would have been Ari. At the time, Ari was on a leave of absence.Et cetera.I meant no offense at you and I'm sure the person whose words I quoted meant no offense either. Heil Loki!!!
Heil H'Graa!!!

[Kaiser Alejian I]

Then I apologies for my outburst.

[osmose1000]

I have SEP access and I wasn't informed. Although, that's because I'm not ALLOWED to look at it, but still...Anywho, you make a great argument, Scott. I was filled with emotion and hatred towards the GC whilest reading your argument......and then coughed and regained my senses once you started to talk about SPEAR. SPEAR IS the anti-GC. Stop using the excuse that it may help in other situations, because your lying through your teeth if you say that it is not meant to counter the GC. You come so close to saying this and then deny it.I don't need to type long eloquent speeches to get my point across. Shireroth needs to be friendly-neutral. If you are so afraid of a bunch of drunken nerds with more pixels than you, than you need a reality check. Shireroth is better than that. The problem here is not a growing nation, it's your foolish self offering Shireroth to be the rope in a rug of war. What the hell were you thinking? How could you not realize that by even associating Shireroth with SPEAR you were causing a whole world of trouble?As your Duke, I'm appauled. As a fellow member of Shireroth, I'm angry. And as a friend, I am ashamed of your actions. You are supposed to know better than sneaking around and then trying to claim the title of hero. Hypatia's Mom: Yay! I'm legal now.Moose: WE(Shireroth) HAVE NON-NOBLES?![21:11] Bill7D0: It's 9:11 PM. Do you know where your plane is?

[Gryphon Avocatio]

I've been an advisor for, oh, a while, and I knew nothing about this.I remember the post in the SEP, but there was no sign that Shireroth was entering into any agreement with other nations. You will need better evidence than that to support yourself, Scott. 3e knowe ek that in fourme of speche is chaunge / With-inne a thousand 3eer, and wordes tho / That hadden pris now wonder nyce and straunge / Us thenketh hem, and 3et thei spake hem so, / And spedde as wel in loue as men now do...

[Delphi]

Scott was an active participant in the discussions, and fended for Shireroth's interests above all. I was there, and not nearly as active as him! And it was in large part my general idea, although the formation, as I said, was done by a whole delegation. In a council in which any nation had at most 3 citizens allowed in, and everyone was competent, in tune with their nations interests, and able to propose anything, Scott was present, and was as loyal to his nation as he's ever been. This is not about control, this is about stability. Apologies are perhaps appropriate for keeping things a secret but until I'm sure of it, I won't be making any. Such open discussions on this as someone mentioned would lead to problems across the board, ranging from active antagonism from dual citizens, some of whom have been founders or simply members of the bloc, the Commonwealth, who would very much and are in fact very much opposed to the existence of any rivalry. Your MiniEx, who would be involved in drafting something like this if it were open, has vehemently invested interests against it. Don't chastise us for having kept it under wraps.The fact of the matter is that decisions were made by people with an idea. Ideas were drafted and put into a document by a delegation of equals. Shireroth had fair input from who I consider to be one of your best citizens, and if not the best, I say without a doubt the most involved and important in this nation's security and general welfare. Would you like all the posts from the delegation to be made public? With agreement from everyone else I'll gladly open it all up to the public, unabridged. There is nothing malicious in there; it's all working towards a common goal, the formation of a loose alliance, not infringing on an ounce of national sovereignty.And... Greg... (Antica's Greg, not the Kaiser ), as a programmer, I'm not expected to be eloquent, but of myself, an orator of great experience... I expect a little better.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

From chronicle-world.blogspot....8-may.htmlQuote:Atteran Prime Minister Johanns fonn Klosso announced the formation of a new alliance between the nations of Attera, Shireroth, Antica, Natopia, and the Union of Atteran Monarchies...Shireroth knew nothing of SPEAR. Only Scott did. Suddenly we (the Kaiser, Nobles, and MiniEx included) find out that we are involved in an pretty extensive diplomatic organization. Don't you see the problem? NONE of the appropriate authorities were involved or informed. We never officially joined. Scott doesn't have the authority to speak for the whole of the nation, last I checked.Quote: In a council in which any nation had at most 3 citizens allowed in, and everyone was competent...Why didn't Shireroth have more people involved. I could have been allowed in (i've been a citizen longer than Scott), Joseph could have been involved, or Shyriath. 3e knowe ek that in fourme of speche is chaunge / With-inne a thousand 3eer, and wordes tho / That hadden pris now wonder nyce and straunge / Us thenketh hem, and 3et thei spake hem so, / And spedde as wel in loue as men now do...

[Delphi]

The only reason that some nations had more than one person was because Octavius and I couldn't have to choose between the two of us, and Olo is our resident God. OK, more could have been allowed in, and I once again see the reason for being pissed at methodology, but I think that's something that's happened and unfortunately not going to change.

[Tahmaseb]

Quote:When we chatted about the Grand Commonwealth last month, Iain told me that one of his intentions in creating it was to serve as "a counter to growing Shirerithian power". I believe Ardashir was around at the time and neither confirmed nor denied this analysis. But since the Babkhans would of course feel no need to counter the power of their age-old ally, it must have just been a random outburst prompted by the alcohol that had been flowing so freely that day. During the opening ceremonies of the Commonwealth, Ardashir announced in a semiofficial speech his hope that the new association would "bring sovereign micronations together under one common banner, one to rival and surely eclipse Shireroth, for mutual benefit." But of course, knowing how much he loves and wants to help Shireroth, this must have been another unfortunate incident of alcohol doing strange things to the head. For Rakesh says the Babkhans still are allies. And Rakesh is an honorable man.Sarcasm, anyone?