Shireroth

I have a theory. It's going to take some evidence to see if it amounts to anything, though. Scott, I'd like you to shut up and watch from the sidelines and just watch as people criticise you in this thread, possibly in ways you consider unfair or wrong. OK? Good.

This is the thread where we analyse Scott and his shortcomings. For instance, I know Hesam has often accused him of holding grudges forever. I just asked him to confirm this on #micronations, and sure thing, he did, though he wasn't willing to come up with any examples. If anything comes up, I want you to post about in this thread. Similarly, I recall accusations that he tends to dig in his heels when confronted with arguments, and hold opinions that seem downright deranged to others. I want you to post examples of such things in this thread. Also I suppose if you just think there are ways that Scott could improve his behaviour or decisionmaking habits in general, you should post about it here. For instance if you think that he's doing things for selfish reasons (hint, hint, Greg), etc..

I suppose I'm using up a little bit of social capital posting this, but hey, it might as well go, since I think I'm on to something. Though, remember, Scott, if you get into arguments in this thread, you're going to drain a lot more of both my capital and yours. I promise to deal with things if this thread gets into a completely ridiculous information cascade or something.

Well as I actually more-or-less like Scott these days I'll steer clear of this.

I TRIED TO THINK OF A MORE TYPICALLY MICRONATIONAL SITUATION THAN "PEOPLE ARE LEAVING BECAUSE WE KEEP BITCHING AT EACH OTHER, LET'S BITCH AT EACH OTHER ABOUT IT" BUT I COULDN'T ):

"Letting a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought contend is the policy for promoting understanding of the nature Scott and establishing a flourishing harmonious culture in our land."

OK, here goes, a little something I got from IRC...

05:08 < Hesam> Ari: I can reference an instance when Scott has held a grudge. He continually refers to Babkha as the "Duchy of Babkha" since he's pissed off that I once annexed Shireroth to it.
05:08 <@Chogall> R d r r
05:08 <@ari> Hesam: But even I do that ): (if I don't, it's because Scott got there first)
05:08 <@Harvey> What about that time when Bill rigged the Audente votes? It took him a long time to get over that.
05:09 <@ari> Hesam: ... not to mention that Duchy of Babkha is a faaaar older joke than that
05:09 <@Bill3000> dude that was awesome
05:09 <@Harvey> Or that one time I did... something... and he held a grudge on me for years about it.
05:09 < Hesam> Ari: The question isn't whether you hold a grudge, its whether Scott holds a grudge. And he only revived the joke because I actually accomplished it
05:09 <@Malliki> ari: This just proves Hesam's drop in awesomeness
05:09 <@Bill3000> although I didn't really rig the votes
05:09 <@Bill3000> I just voted for other citizens
05:09 <@Harvey> Yeah, but we didn't know that, and finding that out later didn't make it any better.
05:09 <@Bill3000> and made all the default choices that of my own party
05:09 <@Chogall> Oh and bill
05:10 <@Bill3000> hi chogall
05:10 <@ari> Oh well
05:10 <@ari> I'm gonna post this in the analysis thread I suppose
05:10 < Hesam> ari: best example I can come up with right now
05:10 < Hesam> sorry man

05:11 < Hesam> Oh, I just remembered another one:
05:11 < Hesam> LENG
05:11 < Hesam> That's a hell of a grudge

More an observation...

When he sees an "underdog" he backs them. I recall two events. Tonia.. and Locke. Despite LOTS of people being mad at her and for good and various reasons (I stayed out of it), he kept supporting her in ways I've forgotten, but it was mostly at the Convention in... 04. I recall she stormed out and he followed and kept including her when other excluded her on purpose. Then.. there's locke. He made Locke a duke.. and all sorts of other stuff, BECAUSE no one liked him.. which put Locke into a place of power and influence. (and the rest is history,, but we lost some people due to those times... they told me so)...

I don't mean underdog like Jess or Hubert... but... something about the person has put them in a disadvantage, and not because they are idiots...

Scott and I have had our disagreements and probably still do about some things.
But this is just unfair. A 'let's all vilify' thread is hardly going to help Shireroth with the way things seem to be going at the moment.

I don't think this has anything to do with vilifying Scott. Indeed, I think this has more to do with helping Scott understand what people really think of him, allowing him to gain an overall picture of his impression on the community.

I think we all like Scott. I certainly do. And while I disagree with him on a good many things, it doesn't mean I think he's evil or not my friend. Sure, I get upset about Leng and the MCS stuff. Anyone who has put that much time and effort into something would get upset. But it doesn't mean I'm going to hole myself up in anger and mark him as some sort of anti-christ.

It's good to get this stuff out in the open. Vent it. All this pent up frustration is what drives people to leave; because it builds up to a culmination point that ends in people just doing drastic things (like leaving in a huff) rather than spouting off small amounts of steam here and there in order to cool down.

When he sees an "underdog" he backs them.

Hi there.

My feelings towards Scott is first of all a great deal of respect. Second, I like him, as I like most of you (yes, you too Chogall). I know I come across as a dick sometimes, but I like you all on a personal level. Shireroth is just surface.

Fuck you Mike.

Erik Mortis wrote:More an observation...

When he sees an "underdog" he backs them. I recall two events. Tonia.. and Locke. Despite LOTS of people being mad at her and for good and various reasons (I stayed out of it), he kept supporting her in ways I've forgotten, but it was mostly at the Convention in... 04. I recall she stormed out and he followed and kept including her when other excluded her on purpose. Then.. there's locke. He made Locke a duke.. and all sorts of other stuff, BECAUSE no one liked him.. which put Locke into a place of power and influence. (and the rest is history,, but we lost some people due to those times... they told me so)...

I don't mean underdog like Jess or Hubert... but... something about the person has put them in a disadvantage, and not because they are idiots...

Hmm. Reminded me http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0&start=16

Scott of Hyperborea wrote:Having seen the chat involved, it looked to me like CJ was more doing the general Internet thing of assenting to any mildly controversial statements in order to cause trouble than actually being racist, and that the trouble was more that a whole bunch of people dogpiled on him and called him awful names for being autistic, then decided to hate him when he complained.

This thread had so much potential.

no it didn't

Hardly going to help the 'old man of Micras'. Internal dissent lol!

...In any case, onto more serious matters.

I do like Scott - to be fair, I don't really know the guy, but from what I've seen he's relatively personable. I would, however, maintain that he can more often than not come off as incredibly pretentious and, perhaps more noticably, holier-than-thou.

How about we make a new rule for exactly this type of thread.

Anyone who posts in judgement of Scott, must then be subject to an immediate "X analysis thread" himself.

I guess I have a couple of gripes with Scott.

He's always dreaming up grand new ideas, but never follows through with ninety percent of them. Sometimes it's legitimate time constraints, sometimes it's that he grows bored of them, and other times it's that he's too afraid to do anything about them unless he thinks everyone else will agree.

In fact, he's not happy UNLESS he's got some grand plan to change everything going on. Seems to me like he's bored of Shireroth, and instead of going away like Nick or Bill or any sane person would, he's desperately trying to make it interesting again by fiddling with a thousand little parameters and seeing if any of them stick. But since no one else likes the same things he does, he's not being very successful.

I expect that as the excitement of the new House system dies down and it becomes clear that things will be more or less like they were the past three years, he'll retreat further and further into boredom and bitterness until he ends up doing nothing but complaining and annoying the heck out of everyone else.

Yvain Wintersong wrote:He's always dreaming up grand new ideas, but never follows through with ninety percent of them. Sometimes it's legitimate time constraints, sometimes it's that he grows bored of them, and other times it's that he's too afraid to do anything about them unless he thinks everyone else will agree.

The similarity to myself is worrying. But the wonderful thing about organising two massive story culminations (Fated War and Al'Magroth) that largely flopped is that I now feel perfectly free to do what interests me and not worry about having to involve others or expecting them to like it.

Yvain Wintersong wrote:I guess I have a couple of gripes with Scott.

You don't count!

Considering that you ARE Scott.

Well, the chap's a tad too competitive for my liking and needs to stop taking everything so seriously, but other than that he seems like a decent guy to me. I realise people get on eachother's nerves, especially if you've known eachother for as long as some of the Shirereithans have, but this doesn't seem the right way to go about changing things.

Right, well, as Harvey said, this thread didn't really fulfill its potential, but since Scott posted this I figured it was time to reveal the actual purpose of this thread anyway: To get to say that you are all silly tits!

Seriously. I don't know what kind of a weird anti-charisma field he projects, but it *is* true that Scott can't say a damn thing without people complaining about how terrible he is at being a human being anymore. My plan was basically to just wait until there was a pile of people complaining about Scott and then just go through everything and show how unfair they're being, but oh, no, you actually word it as vilification and suddenly everyone's all "well basically he's a good guy". And then they go on complaining about Scott everywhere else. But, hey, let's play with what we have anyway:

Ari: I can reference an instance when Scott has held a grudge. He continually refers to Babkha as the "Duchy of Babkha" since he's pissed off that I once annexed Shireroth to it.

Yeah. And I get to do the same thing without anyone giving a shit. I'm pretty sure everyone except Scott does.

What about that time when Bill rigged the Audente votes? It took him a long time to get over that.

Maybe, it's quite distant and I don't remember it that well. Not very up-to-date information about his character anyway.

Or that one time I did... something... and he held a grudge on me for years about it.

You're right, you *have* got the not helping department pretty much all manned by yourself, sir.

LENG

I thought grudges were against people. What makes being consistent about trying to improve the MCS map a grudge? What, has he been stalking Ryan by PM or something?

When he sees an "underdog" he backs them

And it's a good thing you called it an observation rather than a character flaw, otherwise probably... eh, at least a few hundred thousand hours of western TV and other culture with a message about the morality of backing the underdog would have to be redacted.


(Incidentally, I'm pretty surprised that Ardy was the only one who expressed he could see the purpose of this thread. Maybe others could, but they didn't say anything about it. Does everyone hate Scott so much they can't even entertain the idea someone might want to try to defend him?)

Uh. So you ask for historic examples of when Scott held grudes, and I dig a little bit into my own rambling memory but can't really remember them very well, and then you criticize me for not remembering them very well. Never mind the fact that I was trying to help answer your question. Sure they were old, but you wanted examples so I found some. I don't see how this helps prove anything... other than "don't try to answer Ari's questions because there's a good chance it's being used against you vaguely somehow" maybe.

Right, I take that line back then. This thread isn't supposed to be about specifically judging anyone but Scott anyway. Read it as "I tried but couldn't find a person who could actually mention a specific thing that Scott is actually holding a grudge about and not just making jokes about or something".

Scott is one of the reasons I started hanging around Shireroth.

I think sticking up for the unpopular underdog is a strength. I admire him for it.

He's smart, clever and creative.

When he gets miffed, there is a reason for it. I don't see him getting upset more often than anyone ELSE around here. When he does, he's just better at explaining why than most of us.

From the days of the Parliament of Audentior until today, it has been a pleasure to know him and to have worked with him on occasion.

I can't ever remember being P.O.ed at him.

I have lots of examples of being mad at him. Most of them 'cause we hold different views on things, so I let most of it go after a few weeks, at the most. The underdog thing gets annoying with people like.. Locke. I still see that as a huge mistake that seriously harmed this nation. On the other hand CJ, despite the controversy, has proven an active and dedicated citizen.

I think we have a habit, us old timers, of condensing 10 years of interaction into just the bad stuff, and focusing on that. We see the behaviors of others, focus on when they didn't suit us, and call them flaws. With me, people focus on my stubbornness, but how many times was I also willing to bend or even toss out old things for new things. Do we recall CRY, or all the weirdness I did in Tymaria. No, I just get remembered for the Flag, Amity(current) and a number of other things.

Scott just gets remembered for a few grudges, which aren't that many that I know of. I think the conflict between him and harvey is one of the only long standing dispute. Or the occassional flare up between me and him.

CJ, despite the controversy, has proven an active and dedicated citizen.

Hey, Scott doesn't get all the credit for that. CJ's citizenship was part of the price Anandja II paid to make Loki IV go away.


BTW Who was Tom Cutterham, and why would he catch fire?

Something about Hanover and a Coat of Arms......

Beats me. I got no clue.