Shireroth

The recent proposal brought up by Malliki I maintain my disagreement with. However, some of his concerns do have valid points.

So a thought occurred to me that this issue is with lesser nobles, not just the dukes, and with particularly, not voting in the Landsraad. I thought I would post this here so everyone can offer input.

So why not penalize those who fail to vote on a motion?

Something akin to this:

1. Every noble assigned a number of votes, including dukes, is obliged to vote in the Landsraad.
2. Any noble that fails to cast their vote on a motion is penalized.
3. The penalty for not voting is that one (1) vote is taken away from that noble and reverts to its respective duke.
4. If a noble runs out of votes, he or she is automatically dismissed from their post.
5. If a duke/duchess loses all of their votes, they are obliged to abdicate.
6. Penalties will not apply during LOAs or under extenuating circumstances. The latter must be determined by the Judex.

This boils down to one simple phrase: Use it or lose it.

Again, this is just an idea. I thought I'd share it and let people take it from there. It may work, it may not, but it is an alternative option.

Santayana was right.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

Why? Did we try this before?

This may have been "the past" where I wasn't here...

???

And if someone chooses not to vote for tactical reasons, or out of protest. An abstain is a vote.

And I think we should leave it to Dukes to deal with their nobles.

By "vote" I mean the act of actually posting.

Posting an "Abstain" would still count. But if someone didn't post anything, then it would be a penalty.

I kinda agree. I also think that we should extend the voting period, perhaps to 7 days.

It's not a terrible idea in principle, but it would require major work by the Praetor to constantly be adjusting voting totals of everyone in the country.

A better way to legislate a "use it or lose" it policy would be that if a noble doesn't vote in, say, five consecutive votes, the Landsraad could pass a measure that bars them from speaking or voting in the assembly for sixty days. The measure would only require a sponsor and a second to automatically pass. Circumstances could be allowed for announced LoAs or vacations or unexpected major issues such as computer problems, and it could be overturned by the Kaiser or the judiciary if they find cause to do so.

The Kaiser can't involve himself in internal Landsraad matters.

Oh, he CAN, he just shouldn't. Still, you're right, we shouldn't allow that.

Yes, he could, but it would be unconstitutional.

And the Praetor could just ignore anything the Kaiser said on the matter.

Harvey's idea may actually work better since it's a progressive rather than individual penalty.

Ryan wrote:"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

Why? Did we try this before?

This may have been "the past" where I wasn't here...

Actually I don't think we have, I just had a vague memory that *someone* has, and it worked out terribly... and I was expecting someone else to fill in the details. I guess I have to accept being the one who doesn't remember history here then .

In any case I don't really get the point. I always took it as a given that if a duke doesn't have any interest on either side of an issue zie can just stay out of it in the Landsraad. Sure, dukes should be kicked out if they're being generally inactive, but I don't think they should be punished if they're being active except for not saying "I abstain!" in Landsraad votes that they're not voting in. Lesser nobles are a somewhat different issue, but I don't think the Landsraad in general has any business punishing them. If you're a duke and you have an inactive noble, just take zir votes away yourself. This isn't a democracy, you know. Dukes are supreme in their duchies.

Why would we do this?

Dukes should have the right to decide how to award votes to lesser nobles. If a Duke wants to give a lesser noble who doesn't vote much a lot of votes, that's their right. Maybe it's a reward for long service, maybe it's a political move, or maybe the Duke just believes that on the few occasions the noble does vote, they put a lot of thought into it. Or maybe the Duke doesn't have any reason at all, and it doesn't matter because they're Duke and it's their right.

For Dukes, Landsraad voting is a right and not a responsibility. If a Duke doesn't vote, that doesn't harm the Landsraad in any way. Maybe that Duke has an internal focus and doesn't have time for Landsraading, or maybe they have a role-playing reason not to vote (eg they're in rebellion).

This is a solution looking for a problem, and it's an attack on nobles' rights. I wouldn't mind an individual Duke doing this for zir Duchy, like Elwynn is considering right now, but it's not a Landsraad issue.

I agree, let Duchies keep a little power. Although I think we're all getting excited about this, this was just Ryan's suggestion. And I liked it so much I even proposed it in Elwynn, but it should stay at that level.