Shireroth

I propose the following amendment to the LawBook, Chapter XIII, section C:

4. Bounties may not be awarded to rebels against the Imperial Government or rebels against the Kaiser.

I certainly understand what you are getting at here, but I feel that this is one of those things that need to be handled on a personal case-by-case basis rather than relying on the vagueness of a global law. Flippant statement such as "Bah, I oppose that," depending on the context, could be seen as opposing the law, which the Kaiser embodies, thus making the person in rebellion which would then trigger laws like this.

That's a little ridiculous, but I'm sticking with it.

As Dolor is rebelling against the Kaiser, not the Landsraad, I feel this is an issue that the Kaiser, not the Landsraad, should deal with, unless for some reason we are called by the Kaiser to deal with it ourselves.

That is not a little ridiculous, it is very ridiculous. Show me one time in our history when opposition to an idea or a proposal has been regarded as rebellion.

There are plenty of cases of people (possibly deliberately) misinterpreting people's statements and making big deals about them. People have been put on trail for less. I am not going to do your research for you.

Nevertheless, the second part of my statement stands. This is obviously an attempt to put pressure on Dolor to end its rebellion. But, as the rebellion has not significantly threatened the Kaiser in its months of continuing, it is not our problem on a national level. Brookshire needs to sort its own issues out without writing national laws to do it.

My Lords,

While rebellion is illegal, there are no real punishments for it. The Lawbook itself finds rebellion rather amusing, in my opinion, and does not take it seriously. The maximum punishment is honorary citizenship in Yardistan. What kind of punishment is that?

However -- it is possible for the Arbiter to deem a rebellion disruptive to the forum if it's been ongoing for more than a month. The most rebellious of us all, and one who has rebelled the most, is the Arbiter himself. That is peculiar.

There comes a question in my head, wondering whether this rebellion is actually evolving into treason. I am not saying it is, I am merely pondering. Among the definitions for treason is "disobeying or disregarding a direct order from the Kaiser". This has yet to happen. The Kaiser has nor ordered Dolor directly to end the rebellion.

If we wish to quash rebellion, it must be looked upon more seriously in the Lawbook.

Source:

E. Rebellion
1. Rebellion to overthrow a legitimate Kaiser, Duke, or Lesser Noble is prohibited.
a. The maximum penalty for this offense shall be honorary Yardistani citizenship and consideration for induction into the Lodge of Mischevious Intent
2. Any rebellion that becomes a nuisance or a disruption to ordinary public life can be charged with the separate crime of Disrupting the Forum.
a. The penalty for Disrupting the Forum can be a warning, a fine, or a ban.
b. The penalty for repeat offense in this category can be anything up to exile from Shireroth.
b. If a rebellion continues for more than one month, the Arbiter may at his judgment deem it Disruptive to the Forum.

F: Treason
1. Acts of Treason include but are not restricted to the following:
a. Any act of secession from the lands of Shireroth as a whole.
b. Disobeying or disregarding a direct order from the Kaiser.
2. Punishments for Treason may include but are not limited to the following:
a. Complete Exile from the lands of Shireroth.
b. Loss of citizenship.
c. Loss of privileges within the lands of Shireroth.

Harvey Steffke wrote:There are plenty of cases of people (possibly deliberately) misinterpreting people's statements and making big deals about them. People have been put on trail for less. I am not going to do your research for you.

So you make a statement, I contradict it, and it's I that should do the research? Interesting form of debate.

This is just a means of attack against Dolor. Nothing more.

Nope, it is a means of attack on you.

Same difference.

Alright.. let's put it this way.... I've not actually caused ANY harm in my what... 6 months of rebellions? We all know I would never do anything to harm Shireroth or Brookshire. If you do this, I'll no longer get paid for updates and expansions to the bank. Not feeling much incentive to keep working on the bank now...

In fact, during my rebellion I've been the Shireroth rep to the SC and continued to work for the interests of Shireroth and that organization. I've been Arbiter, never once tried to use that position against the throne, though I would if the throne breached the Charter. I've been MiniInfo. I've had admin and never done anything.

Yardistan even has the legal right to rebel. So now they have the legal right to rebel, oh.. but wait.. you'll still get punished for it.

Instead of this legalist's war against me, how bout we just enjoy the fact I'm rebelling, maybe get some good stories out of it. I know my current Duke and I got something fun going in Brookshire. Like Harvey pointed out, it's not till someone messes with me that I actually doing anything.

You're using your Erik status to get perks many others wouldn't get. Either rebel or get in line, that is my view. And how can you be Arbiter if you are in rebellion?

Have I once ever said.. "I'm rebelling, but leave me alone cause I'm Erik!" No, so stop trying to use it, cause I'm not.

As for Arbiter... *shrug* I try not to think to much about these things.

But I do. You rebel against the Kaiser, yet you think you should get payed, be Arbiter, vote in the Landsraad, hold Ministerial positions, etc. I find it laughable that you even call yourself a rebel.

Good.

I guess I'll open this and see where it goes. Someone's gotta vote!

Goldshire (4)- Aye

I don't fully grasp the reasoning behind this bill. A rebellion can be little more than a recwar story or some other backdrop.

If someone were to really launch a rebellion against the Imperial government or Kaiser, they would most likely simply be banned and their citizenship revoked. This has been how it has worked since time immemorial. If someone is writing a good piece of literature that revolves around rebellion - done in good nature despite the context of the story - then they should be given a reward for that contribution.

In Erik's case, he is as annoying as Jess, I will say that much. Be he is an annoyance at most, and can inflict no physical harm on Shireroth (nor would he ever). His rebellion is in word only, not action, and therefore has no bearing on the functioning of this nation.

Brookshire abstains (6).

Dolor, NAY (2). What Ryan said. A Real rebellion would be crushed in seconds by the various admins about, including myself. My kind of rebellion, A Yardistani style rebellion, is little more than having some fun, making life interesting. If this passes I will be the one hurt by it, and for no reason. It won't make me stop rebelling, just stop doing anything for this nation that should get a bounty. In protest, cause I won't be the last one hurt by this.

Khorze NAY (3). All arguments for or against this bill alone, I still see it as nothing more than Brookshire trying to handle their internal affairs on a national level, which is an action I don't approve of.

Goldendown NAY (3)

This bill fails 8 - 4 - 6 abstaining.