Shireroth

PROCEDURAL AMENDMENT BILL 3757

Be it enacted by the Nobles of Shireroth in Landsraad assembled;

That section Five of the Procedures of the Landsraad be amended as follows:

---Current Version---
5. Speech

The Kaiser, any member of the Landsraad, and the Praetor, can freely express their opinion on any bill presented in the Landsraad. Any person may post in the Landsraad, but the posts of people not expressly allowed to speak freely in the Landsraad are placed in a moderation queue. If the Praetor considers a post in the moderation queue to be important for the members voting on a bill to be aware of, he or she may approve the post to be included. However, the Praetor has no obligation to do this for any post.

---Amended Version---
5. Speech

Any member of the Landsraad, any duly appointed Emissary, and the Prætor, can freely express their opinion on any bill presented in the Landsraad. All others are barred from speaking in the Landsraad and are directed to speak at the Front Gate.

I fully agree!

Kildare votes Aye.

Yogurt
Armadillos
Roast Beef

Armadillos in yoghurt sounds deeeeeelicious.

Brookshire AYE.

NAY. Goldshire is not quite so offended by this whole situation that it believes we should go around barring all future Kaisers from speaking in the Landsraad.

Damn no warning? Got to be more equivocal...

Harvey, the Kaiser, as a Noble, is a member of the Landsraad for speaking purposes. This doesn't ban him at all.

Actually, that was my point. That he would be barred. You can't make up the rules as you go along, Erik, that's just not very credible. I find it funny that the Kaiser is a noble for speaking purposes but not for voting purposes. The logical conclusion would then be that Barons, as nobles, are also allowed to speak in the Landsraad.

On a semi-related note, Goldshire (and perhaps we do not stand alone on this matter) is getting a bit fed up with the fact that Brookshire has two speaking voices in this body and can apparently choose at a whim which one gets to vote on any given proposal. To the best of our recollection Erik is the appointed emissary to this body and only he should be here if that is the case. I am beginning to feel like you're deliberately abusing the emissary system, duke. Your bill has not passed yet.

I have a right as a Duke to speak in the Landsraad. I am exercising that right. Erik has Brookshire's vote and if you pay attention, I am not casting double votes.

I think not. The procedures of the Landsraad state that emissaries to the Landsraad may only be appointed in the case of a Duke's leave of abscence. Obviously you're not gone, which makes having you AND your legal emissary be able to speak in the Landsraad more than a little questionable. There is precidence for dukes to appoint an emissary when they are active but do not wish to bother with Landsraad voting, or to simply give someone else a chance while they stay out, but your continued participation in this body indicates this is not the case here.

Another interesting part it this statement:

Membership in the Landsraad is determined in accordance with the Imperial Charter and the recognized noble titles, as outlined in the Imperial Lawbook. Only Dukes or their appointed Emissaries are considered Voting Members of the Landsraad.

(emphasis added by me)

Note the underlined or. It's one way or the other, duke. You've cast votes on behalf of Brookshire in the past without cancelling Erik's right to be emissary. This is a clear violation of the procedings.

I type all this fully realizing you won't want to try reasonable compromise and only respond to legal force, so, if that becomes the case, I will introduce a very clear bill to the floor about all this.

Are you trying to smack me around on legalities? I see that our gentlemans agreement disappeared faster than lightning.

I'm more than willing to support you policially on endevors that benefit us both (except in recwar rebellion kind of stuff, but that's all for kicks, and you may have noticed I haven't moved against you or Erik despite being in a decent position to do so). It's the policy of sort-of kind-of letting Erik somewhat be part of an emissary bothers me since it pretty badly mucks up Landsraad tradition. I didn't start a rebellion to gain a duchy to let any yahoo be able to speak in here!

If we can settle this like gentlemen and nobody has to end up writing new laws or, stars forbid, suing eachother, then that would be grand.

I have delegated my vote to Erik. Show me where it says that I can't speak and I'll shut up.

I think at this point I'M the one not allowed to speak... since my Duke is taking that part.. so. From this point on. I'll vote only. That ought to help till someone tells me what's going on.

Unless it's an Arbiter Issue. Then I'll speak with that voice.

*Changes to Arbiter Voice*

The logical conclusion would then be that Barons, as nobles, are also allowed to speak in the Landsraad.

You are correct. And incorrect at once. Under the Law, the Kaiser is the HIGHEST noble, followed by Dukes, then Barons. Technically, ignoring the Procedures, The Charter implies that the Barons, Dukes and Kaiser all have a place and voice here. We've been ignoring Barons for some time now for more convenience then anything really.

The Procedures need to be overhauled and reviewed, not in that order.

Can I withdraw this bill in favour of the 3759 one which is more complete?

Without Malliki's permission, I don't think you can.

Straylight AYE... I think...? Not sure if the voting period is over. In any case, the new bill to amend the procedures will supersede this one when it passes anyway, so there's no need to withdraw anything.

This bill passes with 4 for - 1 against.