Shireroth

Since the Primate is from a large, English-speaking Benacian nation, I suggest that the Secundus be selected from a smaller nation, perhaps even a Dutch-speaking one. This in order to maintain proper balance between the nations.

Myself?

Albeit, not dutch-speaking. Amokolia is small.

Once again. Mike has a point. It would help balance things.

Before I say this, I want to point out that I actually support Jonas. But not for the reasons stated here.

I feel that it would be counter-productive to try wooing people into voting a certain way based on things like nation size, language spoken, etc. The best person for the job should be the one who is selected. We are ALL represented anyway, by having people here with equal voices and all opinions welcomed. To say that we should elect someone from a smaller nation, or dutch-speaking one, while a noble sentiment, is unfair. I could just as easily say we should elect someone from a Viking-themed nation, as there are a couple of those in the SC as well.

There is nothing unfair about it. And saying that we should or could base it on theme is like saying that we have at least two member nations with dark forum backgrounds, so let's pick one from them.

That was sort of my point

Not really. You compared something as random and changing as "theme" with something as basic as language.

The point I'm trying to make is that we finally have a micronational organisation that brings together both the Anglo sector and the Dutch sector. Let's show that in the organisation as well.

It already is shown in the organization. Do we not all have representatives here? The choice of leadership should depend upon the worthiness of the individual, and nothing else.

I consider Jonas to be very qualified.

Extranneous of his ethnicity and languages, I think he qualifies for a candidate anyway.

I also find him qualified, and have already stated my support of him. I was merely bringing forth my opinion that using native language or nation size as qualifying factors was faulty. Merely an uninformed opinion from someone new around these parts.

Mike isn't new around here... And it makes political sense. As a political organization we do need to think of these things.

Pardon if I didn't state this clearly enough. I was saying that I (me, the one typing) was the new one.

No Erik, it doesn't make political sense and it sets a terrible precedent to try to forcefully and unnaturally "balance" things. The only consideration here should be the job itself. Where in the description of the Secundus (or the Primate, for that matter) is the nationality of the person holding the job relevant? Is there a "minorities only" clause in there? Do I see the phrase "must be a different demography than the Primate?" No. The Primate "oversees the Commonwealth Assembly." Erik has been a great Primate - his nationality has no influence on his ability to keep things running and up-to-date. If people believe Jonas can do that job just as well, vote for him. If people believe I can do that job just as well, vote for me.

If we choose a Secundus based on a group not represented, that opens the doors for all sorts of unfair treatment. Micronationalists that are qualified for positions would be barred from entering them simply because someone of their "group" is already on the staff, so no matter how much they have to offer, they get shut out. Does that sound fair? It would become a silly game to find a minority group that is not represented rather than finding the best people for the job.

As I said at the Shireroth Front Gate, I have no qualms losing to Jonas on the basis of him being a better candidate. Man the best man win, not just the one that happened to be born in the right demography. I know it's kind of a lost cause not to expect cliques to be cliquey, but at the very least it shouldn't be the end-all of who gets chosen.

If I am chosen as Secundus, and if I have the duty to perform duties in the absence of the Primate, I would make quite sure to defend these differences. The Small Commonwealth is a meeting of many different cultures, with the elite being recognized no matter what their origins are.

Harvey Steffke wrote:No Erik, it doesn't make political sense and it sets a terrible precedent to try to forcefully and unnaturally "balance" things. The only consideration here should be the job itself. Where in the description of the Secundus (or the Primate, for that matter) is the nationality of the person holding the job relevant? Is there a "minorities only" clause in there? Do I see the phrase "must be a different demography than the Primate?" No. The Primate "oversees the Commonwealth Assembly." Erik has been a great Primate - his nationality has no influence on his ability to keep things running and up-to-date. If people believe Jonas can do that job just as well, vote for him. If people believe I can do that job just as well, vote for me.

If we choose a Secundus based on a group not represented, that opens the doors for all sorts of unfair treatment. Micronationalists that are qualified for positions would be barred from entering them simply because someone of their "group" is already on the staff, so no matter how much they have to offer, they get shut out. Does that sound fair? It would become a silly game to find a minority group that is not represented rather than finding the best people for the job.

As I said at the Shireroth Front Gate, I have no qualms losing to Jonas on the basis of him being a better candidate. Man the best man win, not just the one that happened to be born in the right demography. I know it's kind of a lost cause not to expect cliques to be cliquey, but at the very least it shouldn't be the end-all of who gets chosen.

If I am chosen as Secundus, and if I have the duty to perform duties in the absence of the Primate, I would make quite sure to defend these differences. The Small Commonwealth is a meeting of many different cultures, with the elite being recognized no matter what their origins are.

I think this is pretty much what I was trying to convey - only I didn't do it as well. I guess I should stay out of the more political aspects of this, and just remain more or less a wall flower.

I believe language skills function as a qualification, too. Though I understand what Mr Steffke tries to convey.

Yes. But my nationality (Shireroth) has been an issue with how we are perceived as an organization. If a non-Shirerithian held the position I hold, maybe there would be less concern that the SC is just some Shireroth machination for power. (despite that being a silly idea..)

Honestly, I believe both are equally, personally qualified. Though Jonas' ability to speak Dutch provides benefits with our ability to interact with the Dutch nations. And his status as the rep of a non-Shireroth nation might help our image. Though to be fair Harvey has that same element.

Just saying Harvey, it's not an invalid argument for others to make. There is more, in addition to, merit to consider in these things.

That being Said. Shireroth will be voting for Harvey.

Amokolia will be supporting Jonas. Shirerithians shall not control the SC.

Jess wrote:Amokolia will be supporting Jonas. Shirerithians shall not control the SC.

Once again I am sorry if I seem very stupid here. But I would like to know if I am misunderstanding the function of the SC. Don't we, the Representatives, hold a majority of the power here? We are the ones who have the final word on decisions, and have the ability to replace leadership; if seen as necessary. Just because that leadership come from a certain nation should not be cause for alarm, nor cause for not voting for a specific person. Once again, I will try to state this plainly: the candidate's worthiness should be the deciding factor. I know that I am new here, and actually new to the whole politics thing - but I can't be as dumb as I am currently feeling.

No, you do understand correctly. But positions hold certain... power, in regards to the fact that others look at those positions for leadership, or just as mouth pieces for the organization.

Jess wrote:Amokolia will be supporting Jonas. Shirerithians shall not control the SC.

I am here as the representative from Nelaga, nothing else.

He's right. Most of the time he annoys the Shireroth government...

Erik Mortis wrote:No, you do understand correctly. But positions hold certain... power, in regards to the fact that others look at those positions for leadership, or just as mouth pieces for the organization.

That's a good point. I can see where you're coming from

This debate seems to have slipped a bit. I am not suggesting that we choose Jonas simply because he's Belgian (sooooorryyyyy Jonas ) and from Batavia. I'm saying that this should be considered, especially when it comes to the image of the SC abroad. I am also not trying to establish precedent, vote for myself or any other such thing. I am merely pointing out that there are values that need to be considered apart from the strictly merit based ones.

Jess wrote:Amokolia will be supporting Jonas. Shirerithians shall not control the SC.

So you're supporting the Dutch of Kildare?!

Who can speak Dutch... funny.

Erik Mortis wrote:Who can speak Dutch... funny.

The Dutch speaking Dutch of Kildare.. moving on...

Erik Mortis wrote:The Dutch speaking Dutch of Kildare.. moving on...

No... can't... too funny...






All right, I stop laughing... now.