Shireroth

Orbat dealers have to buy "materials" from the crown.

Riddle me this.

Imperial Government needs troops, buys them from dealer, who gives MOST of the money to the government... who then can buy more troops... You see the loop? Especially if there is NO dealer..

The Imperial Government has Infinite (or near) troops. Meaning no one can EVER go against the Imperial Government. Hell, by buying troops myself, I'm just giving that many troops to the government.

I have problems with this. And this isn't a SMALL problem. This actually takes much of the fun out of this...

What if the money went into a special account that could NOT be used to buy troops, but was used to Bounties and the like?

Hm... i've never really noticed this before either, but I second Count Erik's concerns.

*plans to charge ridiculous service fees when he gets into the SCIRA supplier business*

Erik Mortis wrote:Orbat dealers have to buy "materials" from the crown.

Riddle me this.

Imperial Government needs troops, buys them from dealer, who gives MOST of the money to the government... who then can buy more troops... You see the loop? Especially if there is NO dealer..

The Imperial Government has Infinite (or near) troops. Meaning no one can EVER go against the Imperial Government. Hell, by buying troops myself, I'm just giving that many troops to the government.

I have problems with this. And this isn't a SMALL problem. This actually takes much of the fun out of this...

What if the money went into a special account that could NOT be used to buy troops, but was used to Bounties and the like?

I seriously dispute the notion that I have access to infinite troops dear boy. The forces I have managed to purchase have been via bounties and the JASO windfall (which you benefited from to a greater extent than I did). There is no money tap with an easy switch on.

I'm just saying, the Crown could easily order money gained from orbat selling to automatically go to MoMA for buying troops.. thus a circle of buying.

The Crown could easily do that regardless of any rules put in place by the Landsraad or the Minister. The MoMA receives his budget from the MiniTrade and can dispose of it in the manner he sees fit. By the way, the Crown could order exceptional taxes to be levied to buy troops and so forth, so we do have an advantage there.

So it's confirmed. There is NO point in using the SCIRA system when the Imperial Government is involved.

And if I introduced a moratorium on any further purchases for Imperial Forces for the duration of the civil war/any future civil conflict?

That is up to as MoMA.

Then you could easily change your mind, the LAndsraad/Kaiser could lift/order you to lift that ban.

It's a matter of money.

This is why I'm proposing the creation of a new treaty in the SC that would expand/replace SCIRA with a new system that would help solve this issue and expand the economy between nations.

As long as the system is as it is, it will ALWAYS be flawed.

Yes, SCIRA's flawed. But it makes money, and for that reason, we keep it. If we wanted a proper recwar system, we'd do GROWL or CITRA like Gralus, but at the time of creation of SCIRA, Shireroth wasn't interested in a proper system - they just wanted the ability to say "I have x army units" - which is what SCIRA provides, quite marvellously.

Yes, the Imperial Government can theoretically cheat. That said, money goes to the Crown account, and the MoMA buys from the MoMA account. Those two accounts are separate, and as Ardy said, he's barely got anything out of the Crown. So there's no problem, at the moment.

At the moment. But surely if the Imperial Government began to lose a war, or was outnumbered, money would flow, and the system would break.

Yep. It's a broken system. As I said, it's tolerably useful. It fulfils the goals of moving money; making people money (even if its by an unnecessary and overly tedious manner); providing less need for taxes to the Crown; and allowing people to brag 'I have an army.' At the moment, Shireroth has shown no interest in a serious recwar system. If there is interest, well, maybe we could update.

I think we are interested, but where we get to buy our troops.

By 'interested' I mean 'interested in a constant recwar system.' If we went back to a constant system, like the original charter had, that would mean someone could start a war with you at any time, even if it wasn't a civil war, and even if you didn't want to fight (or didn't have an army).

hmmm. Maybe make it so you aren't in the system until you agree, but once you are in, you are in.