Shireroth

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:20 am**

As you may or may not know, my nation, the Kingdom of Dura, has recently come out. We would like to pursue diplomatic relations with Shireroth and propose this treaty of friendship and recognition:

A Treaty of Mutual Recognition, Friendship and Co-operation between the Kingdom of Dura and X.

Whereas the Kingdom of Dura and the Imperial Republic of Shireroth hereby recognize each other as legitimate micronations,

Therefore the Kingdom of Dura and the Imperial Republic of Shireroth hereby grant each other recognition as sovereign independent nations, and hereafter pledge that: -

(i) neither nation, nor any officers, individuals or other agents acting under the authority of any government, organization or individual of or within either nation, shall commit any form of hostile, aggressive, subversive or destablizing act against the other, nor against any individuals, organizations or property under either nation's sovereign jurisdiction or control, including damage or disruption to any goods, products or services that may be provided by third parties,

(ii) in the event that either nation is involved in an international dispute of any nature, the other may, upon request, offer to act as a mediator therein, provided that all parties involved in such a dispute agree to such a mediation, and provided that either nation has followed its own procedures by which the decision to make such an offer is lawfully made,

(iii) either nation may appoint an ambassador to the other in order to foster good relations. The host nation shall reserve the right to expel an ambassador found to have committed any activities that are in contravention of either any part of this Treaty or its own laws.

The Kingdom of Dura and the Imperial Republic of Shireroth hereby ratify and sign this Treaty of Mutual Recognition and Friendship.

Signed this day for the Kingdom of Dura: William Strauss, King of Dura

Signed this day for the Imperial Republic of Shireroth:

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:26 am**

Wha? What happened to Livlandia?

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:00 pm**

Some info would be nice, you know, forum, website etc.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:47 pm**

Oh yeah...
The website is http://duranation.webs.com and the forum is http://duranation.proboards.com. Dura was founded on February 7th, 2009.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:48 pm**

Kostalan Rottsaa wrote:Wha? What happened to Livlandia?

I'm still highly active in Livlandia, but I've had Dura for months.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:13 pm**

Number of Citz?

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:45 pm**

Not that I am part of the diplomatic negotiations around here or anything, but it occurs to me that you don't lob on the doorstep of a foreign nation, introduce yourself for the first time out of nowhere, and throw a treaty on the table to be signed. What ever happened to exchange of cultural envois? exchange of accredited ambassadors? negotiations between External Affairs Ministers leading to a Summit Meeting between Heads of State at which a properly-prepared Treaty of Amity might be signed? (not a Treaty of Recognition - recognition is accomplished by the other steps).

I don't know. Never will.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:54 pm**

darcyj wrote:Not that I am part of the diplomatic negotiations around here or anything, but it occurs to me that you don't lob on the doorstep of a foreign nation, introduce yourself for the first time out of nowhere, and throw a treaty on the table to be signed. What ever happened to exchange of cultural envois? exchange of accredited ambassadors? negotiations between External Affairs Ministers leading to a Summit Meeting between Heads of State at which a properly-prepared Treaty of Amity might be signed? (not a Treaty of Recognition - recognition is accomplished by the other steps).

I don't know. Never will.

You've pretty much just proven to me that you're a smart guy Darcy. We should team up and, uh, fight crime or something.

The "treaty in a can" and the general nonexistence of micronational warfare in any form has come close to making the ministry of the exterior in any micronation little more than a glorified rubber stamper. I'm not saying that Dura is bad or anything, but you haven't exactly done much to be treaty-worthy yet. Merely existing shouldn't count.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:21 pm**

I agree with the issue on recognition. It is a view I've held myself for a long time. Merely by speaking to the representative of another nation and referring to that person as "the Minister of Foreign Affairs for ..." or officially referring to a nation as "the Republic of ..." is in a way a granting of recognition. Look at Taiwan for example. The standard micronational Treaty of Recognition is pretty pointless, but a long established tradition in many nations.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:07 pm**

Every micronation was in a similar situation.

Syr William is a Shiririthian, and by helping him become established, we extend our circle of friends. Even mighty Shireroth can use all of the friends she can get.

Besides, since Shireroth is blocked from further annexation, the more friends we help get land, the less land is available to our adversaries.

I'll volunteer to be Ambassador.

I just hope "Dura" is not related to "Dyra".

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:17 pm**

darcyj wrote:Not that I am part of the diplomatic negotiations around here or anything, but it occurs to me that you don't lob on the doorstep of a foreign nation, introduce yourself for the first time out of nowhere, and throw a treaty on the table to be signed. What ever happened to exchange of cultural envois? exchange of accredited ambassadors? negotiations between External Affairs Ministers leading to a Summit Meeting between Heads of State at which a properly-prepared Treaty of Amity might be signed? (not a Treaty of Recognition - recognition is accomplished by the other steps).

I don't know. Never will.

That's been gone for at least two years. Often nations are somewhat more cautious before just signing, but the above treaties tend to amount to just "we recognise you exist."

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:24 pm**

When I was President of Cyberia (the Commonwealth one), I removed the treaty of mutual recognition and just allowed the Minister for the Exterior to make a "statement of recognition" instead. Much more practical and logical.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:54 pm**

Efficient, but bureaucratic an no fun.

Yeah, but new countries usually get all excited about there first few treaties. Thus "Treaty-in-a-Can".

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:42 am**

What they should be excited about is developing their website and forum, growing a population, cultivating a culture ... it's called nation-building.

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:52 am**

Jacobus Loki wrote:Efficient, but bureaucratic an no fun.

Yeah, but new countries usually get all excited about there first few treaties. Thus "Treaty-in-a-Can".

Explain to me how saying "Hey, we recognize you" is more bureaucratic than negotiating and signing a treaty?

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:03 am**

A Treaty, even a standard one, from Shireroth means a lot.

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:25 am**

That wasn't exactly an answer to my question, was it?

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:19 pm**

darcyj wrote:Not that I am part of the diplomatic negotiations around here or anything, but it occurs to me that you don't lob on the doorstep of a foreign nation, introduce yourself for the first time out of nowhere, and throw a treaty on the table to be signed. What ever happened to exchange of cultural envois? exchange of accredited ambassadors? negotiations between External Affairs Ministers leading to a Summit Meeting between Heads of State at which a properly-prepared Treaty of Amity might be signed? (not a Treaty of Recognition - recognition is accomplished by the other steps).

I don't know. Never will.

Introduce myself? I've been in Shireroth for almost a year now. If people don't know me by now then that's their fault.

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:27 pm**

Syr William wrote: Introduce myself? I've been in Shireroth for almost a year now. If people don't know me by now then that's their fault.

Introducing the nation.

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:16 pm**

How lovely the roses are this time of year......

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:28 pm**

Syr William wrote:Introduce myself? I've been in Shireroth for almost a year now. If people don't know me by now then that's their fault.

William
Duke Consort of Elwynn
Baron of Neurak
Count of the most wonderful and delightful and curvacious county of Benacia

So, if you are the Duke Consort of Elwynn, the Baron of Neurak and the Count of Benacia, what shall we think of you declaring yourself King of a foreign micronation and seeking a Treaty with Shireroth? I would have you tried for Treason immediately, but at the very least you should be stripped of your titles and rank in the Imperial Republic.

Has nobody in micronationalism heard of a concept known as "conflict of interest"??????????

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:41 pm**

John,
Mellow, mellow-

The Tri-cit rule has served Shireroth well.

LB IX B,

B: Tri Citizenship Restriction

1. Citizens of Shireroth are allowed only three national allegiances including Shireroth. When applying for citizenship, an individual must have two or less citizenship, else they will be denied citizenship.
2. If a citizen comes into violation of these requirements, he/she must remedy the situation within one Shirerithian week. (14 days).

Officials of Ducal rank (and higher) are more restricted. William is a Baron.

A significant number of Shirithians are High Officials and even Heads of State of other nations. While this makes for interesting debate, the situation(s) usually redound to Shireroth's benefit.

William is loyal.

(Maybe toooooo loyal.) :shifty

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:57 pm**

Treason is whatever the law says it is, and beyond that, whatever the law or the Kaiser decides what it is. Given that the Duke-Consort, Baron and Count has neither declared secession or disobeyed or ignored the will of the Kaiser, he has not committed treason, and given that over the years many Shirerithians have been heads of state of other micronations (and some still are), it is not something that is ever likely to be.

Having citizens who are also foreign heads of state is also of immense benefit to any micronation, for what one would hope are rather obvious reasons.

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:59 pm**

Weren't you the King of Novasolum, sir?

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:29 pm**

This is why I separate my characters

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:49 pm**

Prince Ísur-Ai wrote:Weren't you the King of Novasolum, sir?

I was and I am; but I specifically said when I applied for citizenship here that I would not be carrying that style and title here in Shireroth. Neither have I sought diplomatic relations between Shireroth and Novasolum, since that would mean a conflict of interest on my part - I could not rule a Kingdom and also be a subject of the Kaiser unless (as is the case) the two had no connection in the real world or the micronational world. And the Kingdom of Novasolum is dormant at present in any case.

Iskander Mirkdale wrote:Having citizens who are also foreign heads of state is also of immense benefit to any micronation, for what one would hope are rather obvious reasons.

What a nonsensical conclusion. A foreign head of state is either fully committed to the state of which he is head, or else he is derelict in his duty to that state. Given the small population pool in every micronation, it is standard that every citizen finds his way into a role of influence, administration or leadership. No foreign head of state can truly give loyal service to another nation.

What is obvious is that cross-citizenship is the biggest bane on this hobby. There is no loyalty, there is no commitment, there is no acceptance of leadership and the rule of law. Rather than direct their ideas and energy into the improvement of the micronation in which they are a regular Joe, every second guy sets up a cheap forum and founds his own micronation. Everybody wants to be a Chief, nobody wants to be a Brave.

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:57 pm**

Heh, I am a citizen of as many micronational countries as I am of macronational

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:01 pm**

When someone is a member of five or six nations, that is a problem.
When someone is a Foreign Minister of two nations, and has to negotiate with themselves, that's a problem (and for that reason, I've always avoided being a foreign minister of more than one nation at a time).
When someone is a Trade Rep for two nations, and has to negotiate with themselves, it actually makes things extremely easy and they're always the most reasonable people to negotiate with

But when someone is a citizen of only two or three nations, that is quite manageable, as long as they make it clear where their primary loyalties lie. For example, my primary citizenship is Gralus. I've always said that, and it's never been a problem. It excludes me from being Kaiser (and technically from being Duke again, now I'm in Nelaga), but apart from that, nothing. And while I may not support Shireroth to a fault (that is, I may not support actions where Shireroth is clearly in the wrong, for example), I think the ability to look at issues from the perspective of an outsider can be a boon to Shireroth, rather than a problem.

Posted: **Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:03 pm**

John,

It's different in Shireroth. For nine-ish years.

Really.

It works.

Why?

Don't know. It's a mystery handed down through history.

If it ain't broke, we don't fix it. You can style yourself King of Novasolum. Nobody will mind, in fact you would get an audience for good stories and yarns. The cross-polination works.

Viva Novasolum!

Viva Dura!

"Shireroth sumus. Tempus in parte nostrum est."

Posted: **Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:37 am**

Mr. Darcy, foreign policy is handled by the MiniEx and me. Not you. I also ask you not to accuse other citizens of treason when they have shown nothing but devotion and loyalty to Shireroth. Get your facts straight.

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