Shireroth

Let the following changes to the Procedures of the Landsraad and the LawBook be passed, effective upon passage:

1. That the Procedures are amended as follows:

OLD TEXT
3. Voting
A.

1. After a bill has been presented to the Landsraad, it is the duty of the Praetor to open the voting by posting the amount of voting credits held by each Duke at that time. There is a period of exactly four days (96 hours) during which the members of the Landsraad can then vote on it. Each member has one vote with a value outlined below, which he or she may cast in any unambiguous way to represent a vote of aye or nay, on any bill during the voting period. A vote only applies to a bill exactly as it has been presented. At the end of the period, the Praetor counts the votes, announces the result, and if the weighting of the ayes outnumber the weighting of the nays, updates the LawBook with the changes.

2. The weighting of a vote in The Landsraad shall be pegged to the amount of Voting Credits held by each Duchy, such that each Ducal vote cast counts as as many votes as the number of Voting Credits held by the Duchy. Only Dukes have a voting right in the Landsraad, either Aye or Nay. a. The only exception to this weighting is that no vote may pass when only one Duke has voted in support of it.

3. Voting Credits shall be sold by the Ministry of Trade for 100 erb each. The Ministry of Trade shall maintain an up to date list at all times.
a. Voting Credits may be purchased by any citizen for any Duchy, as long as the Duchy is stated at time of purchase.
b. Voting Credits may not be transferred between Duchies.

4. The Ducal voting shall be public, and the amount of Voting Credits in each Duchy shall be tabled at the start of each vote. Only the amount of Voting Credits held at the start of voting may be counted towards that vote.

B.

1. Voting Credits are not terminated at the end of each vote, but may be reused.

2. Voting Credits shall be terminated at the end of each month.

3. Each Duchy shall initially start with 1 Voting Credit, and start again with 1 Voting Credit at the start of each month.

NEW TEXT
3. Voting
A.

1. After a bill has been presented to the Landsraad, there is a period of exactly four days (96 hours) during which the members of the Landsraad can then vote on it. Each member has one vote, which he or she may cast in any unambiguous way to represent a vote of aye or nay. A vote only applies to a bill exactly as it has been presented. At the end of the period, the Praetor counts the votes, announces the result, and if the ayes outnumber the nays, updates the LawBook with the changes.

2. The Ducal voting shall be public.

[B. removed in its entirety]

2. That Section J. Professions of Chapter XIII of the LawBook is amended as follows:

J. Professions

1. A system of professions shall be introduced in Shireroth. Each such profession shall be limited to a specific area of economic activity and any regulations imposed may not be excessive.

2. The Minister of Trade shall issue a basic set of regulations outlining the framework for the professions. Each government agency may then issue its own regulations for each profession within those guidelines.

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The first part is crystal. What do you think about the professions part? Is there anything that needs to be added?

Maybe the professions part should be more specific on what the professions do?

Are you proposing these as a single bill? If so, I don't get the connection. What if someone likes the procedural changes but not the professions, or vice versa?

There is no connection. Elwynn and Yardistan wants the VC system abolished, I want the professions. This is a bill to handle both at once.

By "government agency" I assume you mean "ministry"?

I'm pleased to see this moving forward.

There is no connection. Elwynn and Yardistan wants the VC system abolished, I want the professions. This is a bill to handle both at once.

Well, I oppose this. I'm thinking of all those bills in the US Congress that start out as "help the poor" and then end up as "help the poor, and give $10 milion to the chemicals industry, and relax regulations on pollution, and give Congress a pay raise" because every congressman adds his own pet project, and then in the end you have to vote for giving money to the chemicals industry or else the poor won't get helped.

There's a bill in Congress now called the One Subject At A Time Bill. It won't be passed, but I think the reasoning behind it is good, and that Shireroth should voluntarily limit itself to the same philosophy. Especially since we so rarely get anything to the Landsraad at all - it'd be a shame to go through all the work of voting on a bill, only to have the whole thing fail because people disliked one provision out of many. And since the Landsraad needs more activity, posting multiple different bills would actually be a good thing.

Isn't there already something about that already?

So I'm not clear on that oppositon.
Is the opposition because Scott wants to keep the VC system?
Is the opposition because Scott doesn't want the professions system?
Is the opposition because Scott wants 1 bill 1 subject, but agrees with th2 subjects above?
Is the opposition because Scott doesn't take chemicals?
Is the opposition because Scott doesn't want the poor helped?
Is the opposition because Scott wants to change Shireroth laws concerning pollution?
Is the opposition because Scott wants to give the Landsraad a pay raise?
Is the opposition because Scott doesn't have 10 million to spend on chemicals?
Is the opposition because Scott has a pet project that isn't yet added into this bill?
Does Scott want the poor to get helped or not to get help, or just chemicals?
How can there be a law passed that voluntarily limits Shireroth to some philosophy? Is that voluntary?
Is the opposition because Scott thinks the Landsradd is too inactive?
Is the opposition because Scott thinks it would be a shame if this bill fails? um passes , fails . pa .... ?
ok, ennough!

Austi: The opposition is because Scott thinks it's bad practice to combine unrelated laws in the same bill and only offer the chance for a single vote on all of them.

I think it's Mike's ways of ensuring the professions act gets passed, and Iskander's way of ensuring the VC abolishment gets passed.

The VC system could be fun if we allowed the Dukes to sell their votes for personal gain.

I'd offer to use my veto to make sure things go as planned but the VC vote is a matter of procedure and thus out of my hands.

Well, is something going to come of this?

Hm... should I write up the bill?

Yes?

..... ......

Please consider the following for introduction.

Chapter XIII: Economy
(New article)
The purpose of this new law is to begin the development of professions in the economy of Shireroth.

J. Professions:
1.0 The Imperial Republic of Shireroth shall promote the development of professions as part of the economy.
1.1 Upon recognition by the Minister of Trade a given business area shall be established as a profession. Each profession shall develop regulations via a board of consultants comprised of no less than 10% of those involved in the particular profession and at least one person who is not involved in the particular profession. The professional members of each board shall be appointed by the Minister of Trade.
1.2 The non-profession members of the board may be appointed by the Minister of Trade, the Kaiser, or the Landsraad or may be accepted by the professions´ board of consultants upon application according to any method the board develops. The board shall operate with or without the non-profession members.
1.3 All regulations developed by all the board of consultants shall be kept on one ShireWiki page developed for this purpose. Each board of consultants shall be responsible for updating the regulations for their profession.
1.4 Board enacted regulations shall not have the force of law and passage by the Landsraad is not required. However, if any regulations are passed by the Landsraad such regulations shall be so noted on ShireWiki and shall have the same effect as if it is law.
1.5 The general public shall submit regulations and changes to existing regulations first to the particular board of consultants for the profession. If the public proposal is rejected by the board it shall be accompanied by a written explanation. The individual who made the rejected proposal may then submit it to the Landsraad front gate if so desired and must include the written rejection by the board.

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Please coider the following for introduction.

Chapter XIII: Economy H. Official Bank

Current reading:

H. Official Bank

1. All currencies will be held within accounts registered to the Bank of The Imperial Republic of Shireroth.

The purpose of the following purposed amendment is to promote the banking profession.

Proposed Reading:

(additions in green)

1.0 All Crown currencies will be held within accounts registered to the Bank of The Imperial Republic of Shireroth.
1.1 Banks shall open a business account with the Bank of The Imperial Republic of Shireroth.

2.0 Banks shall be permitted to hold the currency of a given Duchy when permitted by the Duchy.
2.1 Banks shall be permitted to exchange the currency of Duchies for the Crown currency of the Erb at any exchange rate agreed upon between the bank and their customer.
2.2 When Crown currency is exchanged for Duchy currency, the Crown currency shall be paid to and from accounts registered to the Bank of The Imperial Republic of Shireroth.
2.3 Banks which have permission to hold the currency of more than one Duchy may exchange those currencies at any exchange rate agreed upon between the bank and their customer.

Interesting..... Exchange inter-duchy exchange rates?

Wasn't the deal that the duchy currencies were just names, not really currencies?

2.0 In promotion of our feudal society and government, Duchies may have a local unit of currency when approved by the Kaiser for the purpose of developing the economy of the Duchy.
2.1 The currency of a Duchy may be traded and owned only by citizens of The Imperial Republic of Shireroth and limited to trade within the Imperial Republic.

It's a currency of the Duchy, can only be used in Shireroth, and the Duchy has to get the Kaiser to approve first.

wait... yeah.. I thought it was just a name?

That was what I thought as well. Now it looks like they want to exchange it for Erbs etc. That's not just a name, that's a real currency.

As far as I'm concerned its just lumps of gold.

Er ... did we ever submit a professions act to the Landsraad?

If we haven't yet, this would be relevant.

We never passed the law, that I know of. I would like to see this move forward before I step down.

We never passed the law...

GOOD!

MAWHAHGAHAHHAA

There is hope yet.......

The law was to be passed as part of the agreement. If the law is not passed I will take action myself. With the power of a decree, thus taking out of the hands of the Landsraad, permanently.

Jake, anyone who can't find 50 erb to take a course/test is doing absolutely nothing in Shireroth. (or hasn't waited longer than three weeks)

Anyone who can't pass a basic test on Shirithian law doesn't deserve to be a lawyer in Shireroth. (believe me, its not that hard).

Professions need to pass.

"Bust a deal and face the wheel", eh?

The wonderful thing about MNs that work are that the people who do the most work usually get their own way, as long as they continue to do the work.

I don't have the time, patience or inclination to do more against this than throw peanuts from the gallery. But if the Landsraad won't pass it, that give a clue as to what the community actually thinks of the idea.

If the Kaiser decides to force the issue, that is his right. But Kaisers, laws and times change. This will be fun for a while, for the group that enjoys a more rigid simulation.

If forced too hard, it will shrink the community, at least for a while.

When Kaiser Jess VI looks back on the "professions", in the far future, this, like so many good ideas at the time, will fade into the grass.

Someone will find something in the old forum or in the wiki and smile.

Thus sayeth the Prophet of Loki.