Shireroth

http://www.shireroth.org/shirewiki/Erik ... rter_draft

Above is a link on the wiki of what the Charter will look like in the end. Major changes.

• Format Change to make reference easier.
• Added Arbiter to Amendment Process
• Gender Neutral verbiage (thank you Ari)
• Reorganized where things are for clarity
• Added some helpful options for Praetor election
• The Landsraad has to elect a new Praetor when ever it is called back into session.
• Helped to clear up confusion about the role and powers of the Steward.
• Add some protection for when the Kaiser/Steward is a member of the Landsraad.
• Clarified the protections of the Landsraad from Kaiserial Interference in matter of Procedure.
• The Kaiser can't cede the nation to other nations. (No Hasan I)
• Various other small fixes I can't remember.

I await the Praetor's review and hopefully approval so I can put these changes into effect. There shouldn't be any surprises, this charter draft has been on display for about a month and got input from people.

Added Arbiter to Amendment Process

I object and you know it.

I'm curious, at what times does the Landsraad's session end if not dismissed by the kaiser? Also, if the kaiser abdicates, does the Landraad's session reset and therefore need to elect a new praetor?

Also "c. The Kaiser may not remove the Praetor, or zirself be elected Praetor." seems to contradict dismissing the Landraad which removes the praetor indirectly?

Otherwise looks good.

AAAGH NO YOU CAN'T AMEND THE CHARTER NO ONE CAN EVER AMEND THE CHARTER THIS IS HERESY DEATH TO YOU ALL!

...by which I mean: looks good. Although I think the Landsraad should be able to write whether or not the Praetor gets dismissed at the end of a session in the Procedures. Also, "the Kaiser cannot cede Shireroth in whole or in part" seems to prohibit minor land deals like the time when we traded Middle Absentia for Audentior, or the time the Kaiser decreed Antica was allowed to secede, or so on. I suggest wording that makes it clear that the Kaiser can't actually end the political entity called Shireroth, but is allowed to give up land. It might also help to specify that the Kaiser may cede partial sovereignty to some international body (for example, if the Small Commonwealth develops a military, we could give them control over our military or something. That's a terrible example, but you know what I mean).

I understand. Sessions continue from one reign to another, I think I could count the number of times the Landsraad has been dismissed on one hand, maybe two.

The Landsraad could always say in its procedures that they automatically elect the old Praetor if he's available when returning to session. one of my reasons is if the Landsraad stalls out, like in the past. The Kaiser can dismiss it, then call it back. And if the Praetor is inactive a new one can be appointed. I had to suspend the Charter once to get that done, I don't think that was something that should be repeated. It kinda is an indirect way to dismiss the Praetor, I admit. but with the power to set procedure unmolested, the Landsraad can set procedures to make sure its protected.

A Session ends if the Kaiser dismisses the Landsraad, or the Landsraad dismisses itself.

So, is it fine as it enough to get official approval? Or should I perhaps fix Scott's complaint, as I see some validity in it, though prefer leaving it as is.

Ok that answers my questions.

But I do think Scott has a point about not limiting Shireroth's ability to make land deals. What are the benefits to leaving it worded as you propose?

Mostly I'm just not sure how else to word it and retain the protections against something like what Hasan did..

Novatainia has a law with a similiar meaning, worded "Nobody, from the newest citizen to the King/Queen him/herself, can make or enforce any decision that affects the Soverign nation of Novatainia, its land, or its key traditions, without consulting other citizens first." I would think the "consulting other citizens" is the key bit you need - you might qualify that as "landsraad approval" or something. For Land deals and the like.

As it is now.

The Kaiser may not cede, in part or in whole, any component of Shireroth to another nation, nor relinquish authority over Shireroth to any foreign power.

This restriction is on the Kaiser, one could, if need be, argue that then the Landsraad could cede lands.

Next, as long as their is a clause to get the power back from the organization, the kaiser hasn't Relinquished authority, just given permission for another to act in zir stead.

I just don't want it that the kaiser can unilaterally hand over Shireroth to say.. Babkha... This clause would also prevent us from ever being a member of a merger again. I don't see that as a problem though.

so tack on, "...without the support of the Landsraad?"

Add that on and you have official praetorial support.

IT IS DONE!

Kaiser Agni I wrote:IT IS DONE!

If it's done, I request your abdication. You haven't asked the Landsraad for approval, and I heard that's the new tradition.

Jonas. Get out of my court and stop being a dick.

A one-time thing is not a tradition.

This...angers me.

You've just stripped the Kaiser of one of his most important powers. He no longer has the ability to conduct foreign affairs that might involve land deals by himself. That brings us dangerously close to being a constitutional monarchy.

But more than that, you did it by frivolously editing it into the Charter, this nation's most important document. Instead of seeking other people's opinions and trying to get the best possible wording, you ignored advice and decreed it into stone barely a day after you first floated the ideas to the public, because you didn't want to take the extra couple of days it would have required to come up with good wording. THE CHARTER IS NOT A TOY. It's not the place to add controversial stuff on a whim without really thinking about it.

Next time I become Kaiser, I will have to replace the Charter to fix this problem.

Wow. Go Scott.

Scott... this has been up for over a month in General and on the wiki. This isn't something I tacked together, secretly, in a day and just rushed into place. People have had a chance to read and suggest on it since the beginning of Corey's rule. Ari went through and fixed the grammar. I recall various other people making suggestions and the like. You voiced your concern and I tried to address it. So I'm not sure your arguments really make much sense...

Land deals have never really been some grand and precious power. In fact, ever time Kaisers have tried to give away land it ended badly for them.. Mog.

What wording would you suggest that better puts in the protection I desire? I can always make another amendments to better fix the issue. So.. umm.. calm down?

If anyone else notices something I missed or didn't get quite right, let me know.


And Scott, after pondering, if you can't suggest a better way to phrase it to do what I want, but still allow for foreign affairs as you suggest, I'll put forth to remove it.

Scott... this has been up for over a month in General and on the wiki. This isn't something I tacked together, secretly, in a day and just rushed into place. People have had a chance to read and suggest on it since the beginning of Corey's rule. Ari went through and fixed the grammar. I recall various other people making suggestions and the like. You voiced your concern and I tried to address it. So I'm not sure your arguments really make much sense...

In that case: disregard this, I am an unobservant idiot.

No worries.. but my offer stands.

Scott of Pottymouthboria wrote:brings us dangerously close to being a constitutional monarchy.

THERE IS NO NEED FOR BAD LANGUAGE!