No seriously a law revision request

[Jacobus Loki]

the ravishment of your men and women,

1- For purposes of (whatever the number is) "ravishment" shall be defined as and limited solely to mildy suggestive comments and/or lewd glances.

2- Punishment for violations of #1 above shall be at the descretion of the victim.

Or something along that line.

Or change the word "ravishment" to "tickling".

[Malliki]

According to Wiktionary, "Ravish" means either of the following:

1. To seize and carry away by violence; to snatch by force.
2. To transport with joy or delight; to delight to ecstasy.
3. To rape.

I suggest, as Ass-Arb, that we use the second definition.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Oh dear, now we've cottoned on to the fact that ravishing equals looting and rapine and that rape is not a mutually enjoyable experience, and we are now trying to turn the whole thing into an episode of the fucking Benny Hill Show with some sort of victim empowerment programme thrown in for good measure. Cheers mate.

[Hesam Jayatar]

Once again, consensus does not make something fact.

Whether you want to agree to it or not, Ravage is used as a more polite and archaic term for Rape. There is no interpretation.

[Malliki]

Since English is my second language, ravage doesn't mean anything much to me anyhow. BTW, aren't you the Elwynn representative in the Landsraad? I thought I saw such a decree a while back. Might be me just remembering things wrong.

[Erik Mortis]

I wanna be ravished....

[Malliki]

Don't tempt me Erik...

[Erik Mortis]

Sorry... not my type..

[Aurangzeb Khan]

I wanna be ravished....

There you go old boy, help yourself.

[Erik Mortis]

How bout no....

[Malliki]

Am i not gender neutral?

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Well unless you're a hermaphrodite - no.

[Malliki]

Party pooper...

[Hesam Jayatar]

Now the snickering joke is a national embarrassment:

http://www.intermicronationalnews.com/

[Jonas]

Now the snickering joke is a national embarrassment:

http://www.intermicronationalnews.com/

And that's a problem?

[Jacobus Loki]

I can't get into that anyway , soooooo.......

[Pandora]

*Pandora becomes very serious*

Whoa whoa whoa! I am not for rape as legal punishment and how dare any one accuse me of that. Just in case I was mistaken by what I thought the meaning was I looked up ravage in the dictionary and it states this:

rav·age Audio Help / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rav-ij] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -aged, -ag·ing, noun
-verb (used with object) 1. to work havoc upon; damage or mar by ravages: a face ravaged by grief.
-verb (used without object) 2. to work havoc; do ruinous damage.
-noun 3. havoc; ruinous damage: the ravages of war.
4. devastating or destructive action.

And as the dictionary states I thought. I thought it was more meaning of torture. However, out side of Shireroth, I am not actually for torture as punishment, nor am I for the burning of homes, killing people, animals and children as it law originally states. Though it was my impression that Shireroth was a cybernation that was bassed on an old world system and that is what we as Shirerithians were sopposed to go by and have fun while doing it. It was not my intention to seriously offend anyone. BTW, the "ravishment of women" was already legal, and I thought it pertained to torture and I was trying to get the landard to have it equal. <- That being said, on the basis of old world system.

Is this the way Shireroth is? Is it sopposed to mirror the real world? If so we have a lot of things we need to change then! I also ask those who got offended if they play games such as WOW or any thing involving violance? Do you? Do you kill people in games for fun? And by that same logic does that make you a murderer in the real world? So far by the people that I know they are not and they are just having fun. Why then does it differ here? So what does that leave? Hypocrysisy. I'm so mad I can't type straight.

If I was mistaken by what Shireroth truly is, please let me know.

Thank you.

[Ari Rahikkala]

[Malliki]

I agree with you Pandora. All of it.

[hypatias mom]

Ari--You, of all people, should be defending someone who has been attacked. You have no right to laugh and think the entire thing is a joke. Because of all the defamation levied at Pandora, she called me up in tears saying she has been driven out again. Pandora's approach is unique partly because she is new to micronations, and partly because as an arrtist she sees different approaches to roleplaying. You and some otherr so-called gentlemen have some serious soul-searching to do. Pandora is owed a huge apology, and I am not sure she will ever be willing to try to return after this.

Hasan--You are the worst!! You took a perfectly logical argument and proposal and used it as a bludgeon. How dare you, "sir!?

I have also responded sharply to the Intermicronational News Service hatchet job done on Pandora's motives and character by Will Tomsett. I thought this type of savagery had finally been bred out of contemporary males. I guess I am mistaken here. http://www.intermicronationalnews.com/

I would like the male population of this country to think long and hard about their attitudes. Sexism is not as far from the fore as I had hoped.

[Jacobus Loki]

I saw the Pandora character mostly as a kewpie-elfin being.

It is a risk being a sensitve person of any gender with a group of mostly young men (although Shirithians are much more thoughtful than most).

Pandora, you have my sincere apology if I have offended you in any way.

I understand now why I have a lot of trouble recruiting my own loving wife, who is also very sensitive.

If we loose this side of our culture, we loose a lot.

And I stilll think we should sue, or unleash the MoMa.

[hypatias mom]

Jacobus--

I just got off the phone with Pandora. She asked me to tell everyone she appreciates their defense of her position and character, but that at the present time she is still too upset to even read the forum. As she said, it is one thing to comment on her fantasy character in the Shireroth forum, but when it is made a matter of reality in an international forum it is a libelous attack and one no one should tolerate. The idea that personal character is destroyed in a public forum, without any way to answer or explain the accusations, is far more serious than most people recognize. As she said, this could even be brought up in a character search for a job application, and her character, once maligned, could be seen as this fictional person in reality, resulting in loss of job opportunity and a black mark affixed to her character in real life.

Thank you for your sensitivity here. Just as you are not the person you play, neither are most people in Shireroth, or even in micronations in general. Other countries may take a serious approach to their simulated governments, but how many of these young people are emperors, kings, generals, bishops, etc., in real life? This is fantasy also, though with a more serious tone, even if they would never wish to admit it.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

No one is rushing Pandora. She can take all the time she needs. If she ever feels that she can come back, we'll be ready to welcome her back, as I'm sure she already knows.

In the mean time we should, as Carol has previously suggested, perhaps do some soul-searching and work out if any of us can change in any way to prevent something like this happening again. In this case, the crime was mainly not a Shirerithian one, but I think some of us have not been bearing in mind fully the seriousness of the situation, myself included.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Pandora, hoping you come back and read this... I am sorry. If my response offended you, it was my fault. I did not read the right kind of emotion into your posts in this thread. Not blaming Hesam or Tomsett here, but the fact is I was genuinely surprised to see your emigration thread, because there had been so much mock indignation in this thread I did not realise that you were genuinely offended.

Anyway, since I seem to have gone from the Nicest Guy in Micronationalism into a grumpy old male, I feel compelled to mess the situation even further up by saying this: I believe this was primarily a miscommunication. Too much sarcasm, too much mock offense, and eventually someone takes a message seriously that was intended to be in jest (or, as I did, takes a message in jest that was meant to be serious). Considering that this thread and Tomsett's news post did pretty much contain the greatest concentration of mock offense I have seen in recent history... yeah. It's a pretty ugly result for a sequence where no-one intended to offend anyone.

[hypatias mom]

Thank you, Benkern. I'm sure everyone is aware that the internet is a rich source of material about most people. Many who post blithely come to rue this. I'm sure you all have seen the damage caused, for example, by a young person's lapse of judgement following him or her for years, if not permanently. To expose one's own self is one thing, but if a stranger posts something damaging which is taken by outsiders as reality, the repercussions can last forever.

I appreciate your support. I'm afraid I am not able to be objective here, but I think my arguments and defense are justified.

Ari--I appreciate your apology. If you knew Pandora as I do, you would realize that fantasy kept as fantasy can encompass a whole range of roleplay and mock emotions. However, when it is taken outside this forum and made into a personal attack, the entire tenor changes. Mr. Tomsett doesn't understand role playing, or Shireroth, or the damage that can occur when make-believe is construed as reality.

[Prodigy Almighty]

*Plants an enormous red flag in the ground and blows a whistle*

Hold up here! What the hell is this? What have you people (read: Hesam) done? *Facepalm*

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In this instance, I believe the legality of "ravishing" was in a satirical and absurd sense. Thus, we are merely stacking on to the absurdity by making this gender-inclusive. Honestly, I kinda laughed when the idea was first brought up. Now you're detracting from my fun and its silliness by having a meaningful and angered discussion about this? What the hell people! And I thought the Babkhans would be the ones laughing at this with me!

EDIT: Dear god in heaven that I barely believe in! Now I find out that personal attacks have been made? What is this bullshit? I'm getting pretty pissed off right now! This is getting ludicrous! Aren't micronations supposed to be funny? *gets up on an upside-down soapbox* Aren't micronations supposed to be fun? Aren't they supposed to be nice places to go to lower your blood pressure, not raise it? I should not be in a murderous mood tonch a wonderful day, and for that, I blame the escapist hobby I should be using to calm down! This nonsense is fucking me up, and I'm in the mood to fuck someone up in return! (Pardon my language, but I'm feeling passionate right now)

[hypatias mom]

Prodigy--

As I told the others, keeping fantasy roleplay within the forum allows for all sorts of imaginative and creative story lines. The problem comes when an outsider decides the entire situation is totally straightforward and indicative of reality. The issue of gender equality was a semi-serious one, but was handled in a light-hearted manner. However, the INS totally msconstrued both the character of Shireroth, and that of our citizen. This widespread maligning of a person's character, and the assumption that this fantasy person is real, can do serious damage in real life to a person's reputation. This misperception can follow someone for years, if not permanently.

[Erik Mortis]

*is amused*

Popcorn! Get your popcorn here! Just 2EUR!

[Jacobus Loki]

Here's 2 . I like popcorn.

(Egad, its at least 4 gallons. Everybody share.)

Hey, if we can't sue, can't we raise some volunteers and go TP Tomsett's virtual house, or his virtual office?

[Erik Mortis]

Enjoy the popcorn!