Shireroth

I think there are some really good ideas in here that could be incorporated into some future recwars. I agree that some levels of technology are more complicated than needed for our wars, and might be changed to a generic "tank" or "fighter" or "battleship. And I especially like the idea of " Shirithian Regional Abnormalities," in which different types of technology would or would not function. I think there is fertile ground for imagination here.

The thing I like about Medievil is that if you want melee you can have it.. if you want range.. bust out the trebuchet and archers.. but modern... a guy with a sword.. Just dies... period.

I apologise in advance for the unstructured nature of my reply.

It is perfectly possible to have a melée combat in the modern era - just look at Kenya.

In my opinion randomly mucking about with the chronology doesn't cut the mustard - mucks up the continuity. Similarly magic and technology 'exclusion zones' established on any formal basis would be akin to setting up those UN safe areas which of course worked so well during the Bosnian War.

What we really want is a hierarchy of combat that escalates gradually from the quaint to the brutal via a detour into the realms of "magic".

Brutal
1. Conventional SNARL/MRWS recwar
2. SNARL/MRWS recwar with elements of magic
3. Free Flowing Warfare: between formed units (i.e. created on or before the initiation of combat) - allowing for magic
4. Spontaneous Melée: (no upper limit on force size, the populace in uproar, going at each other - bladed weapons and small arms only)
5. Magic duals with no contemporary tech
6. Tournaments:[iw1ed0tf] "military exercises carried out, not in the spirit of hostility (nullo interveniente odio), but solely for practice and the display of prowess (pro solo exercitio, atque ostentatione virium)." [/i]- Roger of Hoveden. Where self appointed knights gather themselves together with their retinues and seek each other out to battle over obscure points of honour or just for the hell of it.
Quaint

Free Flowing Warfare and Spontaneous Melée could occur at any time either as part of the political process or simply for the sake of letting off steam. Free Flowing Warfare would be unstructured enough to enable magic for example to be countered by innovative 'non-magical' means - such as, say for instance, a mana-busting bomb or missile,

Spontaneous Melée would have a greater scope for allowing creative anachronisms to appear on the battlefield and indeed we could be treated to bizarre spectacles such as knights in gilded armour charging lines of riot police who frantically try to disperse them with tear gas and baton rounds.

Tournaments and magic duals should merely be the concern of those who elect to don archaic armour, find a good horse, a sturdy lance and seek adventures and the participants should in turn define the terms. Should the understandings that underpin the tournament and the magic dual breakdown or be strayed from then they may be deemed to have degenerated into a Melée at which point the field opens up to anyone who fancies a bit of unscripted ultra-violence.

Tournaments and magical combats occur frequently in Shireroth due to a lack of health and safety regulation and the noticably relaxed attitude of the civil authorities to wandering mages and knights errant. The only notable exception to this rule was an unfortunate incident in the former Goldshire when the furious charge of an army of knights engaged with tourney was brought to a premature end by ision with an oncoming freight train... you get my drift...

Proper recwars, needless to say, require the most work to organise, will require agreed mechanisms for arbitration and should realistically only be used at an international or interduchy level.

A general principle should be that for contemporary *realistic* units SNARL should be used as a baseline for manpower, defensive capabilities, manouvrebility (sp) and firepower. Moving in either direction from that baseline will increase or decrease the number of forces available. Generally, the more advanced your tech the less manpower you can call upon, so for instance a giant robot with high-energy lasers impervious armour and inbuilt multiple missile racks would be on its lonesome whilst a count who fancied arming his followers with machetes and spears would be entitled to lead a mob that might seem as vast as the oceans.

That does sound reasonable, but my concern is the placement of magic ... say putting magic duels xt to tournaments. But I suppose that's taken as a one on one dual unlikely to say, rupture the space time contiuum, or build a new mountain range.

The funny thing is, your "SNARL with Magic" is what Gralans would normally consider just about the largest extent you could take magic too. That system is indeed well structured.

I take it the melee is before you have actual armies, breaking out of the two previous levels?

I think in Toketi we run magic wars with ITRA, which is almost like SNARL, but different...
>_>
<_<

Like only that you have 10000 troops stead of 25000, and you're a little less strict on allowable modern technology?

Lovely how this has already descended out of the realm of what I wanted, and back into the realm of what I think is opposite of what made the old recwars fun...

Your needs and attention span are catered for between points four and six on the sliding scale.

Andreas the Wise wrote:Like only that you have 10000 troops stead of 25000, and you're a little less strict on allowable modern technology?

There's more to it than that. I have ITRA 2.0 I'm working on right now...

Why not wait for the new charter from MCS and then incorporate that?

On charters, Zindaria, who, I understand, have the old Jasonian Islands (unflying) have come up with a rather different one ... albeit incredibly and unnecessarily long ...
http://p207.ezboard.com/fzindariafrm45. ... ID=1.topic
It appears to work on the principal that people's posts are not actual moves, but a newspaper report of what they think happened, and may be wrong or totally out of proportion, and an independent judge decides what actually happens. Have a squizz, oh Kaiser, and see if you think it could be any help?

It's closer... But I liked it when it was a story... not a game... not a contest.. but a story... people did things to be dramatic and cool. the guy who just had some archers and fought the evil hordes was cool.. the guy with millions of men with missile launches was a godmodder and everyone ignored them...

The way it was done in the Mog-rebellion. This is when I miss the old RPG gamers we had.. Stone, Fax, Steve. They would understand that it shouldn't be about large drafts of rules and regulations. But about the story.

I DON"T want to create a rule set... just some coherent ideas and understandings on how things worked, or ought work. And when someone got out of line, they could fix their mistake when people pointed it out...

Though I did discover we had some jets in that recwar... but all big stuff just did support.. the real fighting was by ground troops, and storytelling... swords and halburts. Mog was actually not killed by Letifer but by Stone...

Okey.. some ideas on what I think should be the list of guidelines.

You proly want to ave a main character(s)
You proly have some troops that make sense for where you come from. (type and numbers)
Try to limit tech and magic.
Consult with others.
Try to kp the story going.
Admitting to losses on your own is good storytelling.
Be dramatic!

And that's it!

Oh, I get it now ...

Oh, that's a wonderful idea .... I'm sorry, I didn't realise you wanted a jolly good story. When you put it that way, knowing who wins and loses beforehand makes perfect sense .... that's ... that's so much like the Demon War I'd be condemned by my fellow Lords and Ladies (in Tokidoki) if I didn't participate ... I see what you mean ....

Yeah, old-school is so much better for that ...

and that's in my oppinion.. what rec waring is... this stuff with rules and such is a game... not a rec war...

(sigh)

Rules. Ptafffl!

I see! This seems like a dandy good time! I love story telling! I'd be happy to participate in the next war, and this time without a giant robot... I agree, sometimes giant robots are fun. But other times, some good ol' fashioned melee is what I crave...

Well.. even when people busted out, "out there" stuff it was for the reason of the story. I recall Stone using Drow magic, but he used it WELL.

Kaiser Mors V wrote:Admitting to losses on your own is good storytelling.

IMO, it's essential, and the reason why MMORPGs tend to explode on people. Oh, wait, no, I see, this is only tangentially relevant... I'll curb my ranting, then.

Unless someone wants to hear it.

Well, if you say how many troops you lose, thenthers won't need to.. and you will have more control over what happens to yours people.. and those can plan better.. it just makes sense...

And those of us who have never done role-playing games just stay out of the way and let the pros handle them. I'm afraid the games I have played were invented before most of you were even thought of.

You don't need to get out of the way. It's not that you need to be an RPGer.. just.. be a writer.. a storyteller.. that's what I'm advocating...

That's the problem--I'm a rotten storyteller also. I'm great with structure, spelling and grammar, but my fiction stinks.

Utilise that then. Be a non fighter. You could ... be a letter writer. Yes, I see it now, the little Shirithian Baroness, writing the most grammatically correct and well punctuated complaints letters ever seen to the armies invading her doorstep ... so elegantly worded, so wise ...

See, in a real war, that only works well if the other side has a sense of humour. But in a story ... they have to listen. It just wouldn't be a good narrative otherwise ...

Actually, I really do get formal and exacting when I feel I have been wronged. I look back at all those indignant posts from right after the paradrop, and realize where my mom got her attitude when she wrote her "little letters." Perhaps you're right. You made me feel better. Thanks.

And letters are a part of a story.. of real war. Letters asking for assistance, letters trying to pursue peace, letters giving intelligence... letters to soldiors... from soldiors...

If anyone's read my recwar novellas, then you can probably see how I try to incorporate those sort of things. The point of recwarring is to tell a story. But just like any story that involves conflict, you have to know what your range and limitations are (technology, size and composition of your forces). But after that, it's a story, with real characters, not

LOLZ, I just blew up 500 of the enemy.

What I really do hate is when people take this the wrong way, and think that recwarring is all about the tech, all about the weapons, all about stats. That's turning a literary exercise, a collective fun timing writing about a whole slew of things, and killing whatever joy is left in it. Perhaps the people who do that are trying to compensate for a lack of writing ability. 'If I can't write about the struggle from a personal point of view, I'll just waste away pages of technical details that will make people cry.' or something like that.

Personally, I could probably draft up a book on all of the different types of weapons and technology that are behind my "hero" naval unit, the Bellerophon Carrier Group, but no one's really going to want to technical specifications of the ships and aircraft, or at what range and accuracy the various types of guns and missiles operate on. In my humble opinion, I'd think people would rather read about the crew, their experiences, the actions that are taken, and the death-defying actions that are taken that sometimes work and hopefully won't get bollocked up. It's more interesting. That, and it's easy to get carried away and write individual posts approximately 5 pages long, with a summary consisting solely of "Battleship Alfa begins bombarding the coast."

I've read a lot of different people's recwar posts over the years, and unfortunately, they consist more of what I would consider summary than content. I recently finished reading some historical fiction based in 12th Century England and France. The Battle of Lincoln was very well written from all sides. But the summary would be "Earl of Gloucester leads army at lighting speed to Lincoln, forcing the English king to break off his siege of the castle at Lincoln. The two armies meet, and the King's army disintegrates. King is taken hostage." I wouldn't want a thread full of that, I'd want to read the story.

EDIT: Plus, I can attest to Foghorn's love of having sword fights in modern warfare. It's not impossible.

I prefer a more focus on individuals... and a more ignoring of the troops. they are just there for background...

Well, you've got "The Troops", and then you have individual soldiers.

Kaiser Mors V wrote:I prefer a more focus on individuals... and a more ignoring of the troops. they are just there for background...

Yeah, that's more what I'm like in Recwarring ...

Then there is some sort of consensus.