Kaiser's Administrative Rights Act

[Ari Rahikkala]

Oh, and remember one thing... we don't really lose anything if this bill does not pass. The Kaiser is still supreme and so on. It's just that rubbing this supremace in everybody's noses is not a good idea... Mitä minä todella sanoin

[Gryphon Avocatio]

It's a perfectly good idea.I don't believe that we should have to be nice to anyone. I don't believe that Shireroth is a nation built on the premise of being nice. The idea behind this Act is to protect our interests and maintain the supremecy of the Kaiser and his ability to maintain the lands that are his. Voting Nay to this bill implies that the voter does not believe that this is the case and that the Kaiser should not have power over all of Shireroth.Also, this has little to do with Shirlan, as they don't have a clue what's going on anyway. Certainly, the impetus for starting the bill came out of a thread about the Shirlanians, but the basic ideas have always been in the back of my mind, and I felt the need to put them down. The Kaiser is the supreme sorereign of the Shirerothian lands, he should have access to all of them. Simple as that.Oh, erik, were you going to vote? -Gryphon Avocatio- Anarch and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.

[Gman Russell]

Lesser Yardistan (Amity and Mirioth) abstains. Both sides of the yay and nay have excellent arguements, so unless someone can convince me soundly, I abstain....Shades of grey really suck...

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Do as you will.*gets ready to rant again*Funny. People say they love Shireroth, but they don't support the Supremecy of the Kaiser. I find that really funny. I don't get why people who don't support the nation's leader are here... -Gryphon Avocatio- Anarch and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.

[ErosDarkstar]

Kitanus Fields (2) ABSTAINS, as we are wont to do in situations that we don't agree with, but are in the right anyway. Eros Darkstar al Sylvas ij Qel'AthasLast Son of Night"The Great are Only Great because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" -Stirner"There never was a saint with red hair" -Russian Proverb

[Ari Rahikkala]

Quote:Funny. People say they love Shireroth, but they don't support the Supremecy of the Kaiser. I find that really funny. I don't get why people who don't support the nation's leader are here...As long as I am a Shirerithian and not the Kaiser, there is no such concept as not supporting the supremacy of the Kaiser for me. I have no choice on the matter. The Kaiser's word is the law and can not be preempted by anyone else in the nation. The only way I could lessen the power of the Kaiser is to emigrate from Shireroth. And I'm still a citizen :). Mitä minä todella sanoin

[Ari Rahikkala]

Quote:I don't believe that we should have to be nice to anyone. I don't believe that Shireroth is a nation built on the premise of being nice.I quite simply disagree with the first sentence. Shireroth's built on the premise of surviving. Sometimes, talking softly makes it easier to keep our friends close to us. I could make a (flawed) slippery slope argument about what would happen if we decided that it's not Shireroth's business to be nice to anyone, but... I'll spare that for another discussion. What's important is that there's no point at all in the Landsraad asserting that the Kaiser has a right that everybody already knows zie has. Do you go around shouting "I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in people's ears just because you do? Quote:Voting Nay to this bill implies that the voter does not believe that this is the case and that the Kaiser should not have power over all of Shireroth.If a dog doesn't pull on its leash to get forward, does this imply that it has no will at all to go where its owner does? If the Kaiser was not supreme, I would vote for this act - after all, its content is quite senseful and it's good and right for the Kaiser to have administrative power over all of Shirerothian lands. In the current circumstances the act is just useless.Now, I might surprise you guys by saying this, but I would support an act to prohibit any subdivisions from having any open forums at all except for Shireroth's board. Unlike this act, I believe it would have actual positive results. Gathering all activity on one board is not implied in the idea of having a supreme leader of a nation (the supreme leader having admin. everywhere is) so it would change things. One board is more efficient administration-wise and saves the Kaiser time (*). It also enhances what I guess should be called "cultural assimilation" (which Tymaria lacked - this is what Erik calls its folly, I think). It's a less nice way to deal with people, yeah, but at least there are good arguments for it.(*) To quote Nick yet more...Quote:Ironically, this comes from us leaving Tymaria. We had our own board and we were able to secede because nobody was paying any attention. This act supports the Kaiser's supremecy and helps maintain national security.It's much easier to pay attention to people if they're not allowed to have open boards at all than if they can have open boards but are supposed to give the Kaiser admin.. Mitä minä todella sanoinEdited by: Ari Rahikkala at: 9/13/03 3:02 pm

[UEC]

He has a point there...I tihnk my main fear tha prompted my support for this is the idea that a subdivision might pull what we pulled in Tymaria... We had our own board.. and thusly our activities were overlooked. Now I'm not saying that we have subdivisions trying to break away, or such, but I don't really support the idea of letting subdivisions start up their own boards...One reason aside from Shirlan, was I heard something about Jaris having it's own board.. if this is so.. how many of us know about it? And where is it? If it exsists...Maybe I'm just saying we need to be paying more attention to what subdivisions do... Thought I seriously doubt many subdivisions would even ponder breaking away..Maybe I'm just trying to make a statement with this Act...anyhoo.. I thought I voted... but I vote all 4 of my Votes Aye... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gman Russell]

*laughs* Why would a sub-division rebel and leave if they voluntarily join Shireroth? That's why I would put a clause in that they can leave when they wish too...*shrugs*I'm really torn both ways on this..... ugh...And as for why people stay in Shireroth when they dont support the kaiser:Please don't think just because we disagree with the Kaiser it means we dont support him... we knew he was fully soveriegn in Shireroth the moment we took the immagration oath just like he accepted US the moment he allowed us to immigrate! Just because we feel differently doesn't mean we're going to overthrow the gov't......Well, at least thats how I feel. My oath to the Kaiser stands, and it'd be way to hypocritical to rebel for me to live with myself.On the other hand, I can understand your reasoning just because not everyone feels like me about oaths and things of that nature... so... im torn... ugh.... nevermind my rant unless it helps *laughs* Don't hate me Nick! NICK DON'T HATE ME! I LOVE THE KAISER I SWEAR! *grabs pant legs in distress*(edited for exact ranty-goodness) Edited by: Gman Russell at: 9/13/03 7:28 pm

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Quote:What's important is that there's no point at all in the Landsraad asserting that the Kaiser has a right that everybody already knows zie has.I submit to that, Ari. You are right. This point does give me a reason to wonder why the Landsraad even exists...as we do things the Kaiser could do himself. Interesting thought, and a good point. (oh, by the way--No american has the rights to Life, Liberty or the Pursuit of Hapiness (property). They are nowhere in any Legal Government Document. Sorry, that was just bugging me.)Quote: I might surprise you guys by saying this, but I would support an act to prohibit any subdivisions from having any open forums at all except for Shireroth's board.I would probably support this Idea. It helped to inspire the one we are debating. However, I don't believe that we can tell a sub-division they can't have a board and expect them to follow, especially if they were to become rebellious.Quote:It's much easier to pay attention to people if they're not allowed to have open boards at all than if they can have open boards but are supposed to give the Kaiser admin.. How's that? Like with Jaris, if we didn't even know that they had a board and they were active on it, then it would be pretty difficult to pay attention. I suppose that this bill doesn't do anything to prevent that, so either way it doesn't really make a difference.Hmm...Ari, you are indeed good at proving your point. I commend you. -Gryphon Avocatio- Anarch and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.

[Mattlore Devious]

Loth votes AYE (6)... Dominate those minons... The Ven. Mattlore DeviousPrime MinisterViscount of Amiens The Most Serene Empire of Ascalon

[UEC]

LOL....The point of the Landsraad.. The original point. To be able to run Shireroth, when the Kaiser vanished. (as I sometimes did in those days)... But kinda grew...) E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

The Kaiser has all the powers of the Landsraad and more...so one of the two is redundant when they are both around....Pretty much there is no point to the Landsraad except to generate activity... -Gryphon Avocatio- Anarch and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.

[Gman Russell]

So does that mean you're going to disband it? I rather like being able to cast my two pitifull votes;)

[Kaiseress Jadie]

No I am not going to disband the Landsraad (which I can technically do if I am not mistaken)The Landsraad comes up with ideas that I might not think of but might be necessary for our nation to prosper. So the Landsraad stays...as long as I get a new Praetor. Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[UEC]

We could always get rid of ourselves.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

but why would you do that??? Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[Gryphon Avocatio]

It doesn't matter...we techinically can't...that bill failed... -Gryphon Avocatio- Anarch and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.

[Gman Russell]

Disbanding the Landsraad is just a bad idea... it generates activity and like you said, allows the country to keep running in the absence of a Kaiser, it just so happened that this time he had a wife to take over. *nods*

[UEC]

Accually Nick, we can. Just cause a bill failed doens't mean we can't try agian some time. It was declared constitutional for the Landsraad to disband itself... it just chose not too last time.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

I honestly see no point in disbanding the Landsraad at the moment....I like it there :) Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[UEC]

I'm just saying what can legally be done... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Disbanding the Landsraad would upset things to much...we're the only voice for the citzens in the nation (though we are appointed)....if it were just the kaiser doing everything...well...this nation wouldn't be much fun... -Gryphon Avocatio- Anarch and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

Yes it would...:p*laughs* Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[UEC]

That's one of the reasons I made the Landsraad, way back when, to add a lil.. something... to the nation... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

To take away your fun?That doesn't make much sense!! :p*giggles*ohhh...I am such a brat...Whee!! Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[UEC]

Que? E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

*sighs* Oh Nevermind...you just don't understand....read the past two posts I made..then it might make more sense. Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[UEC]

I see... still don't get it though.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

Nick said the nation wouldn't be any fun if the Kaiser just did whatever he/she wanted without a Landsraad and I said it would be....does that make any more sense? Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth