Shireroth

Well the problem is that a consistent treaty has yet to be negotiated at all.

Be advised.No final status of LG&G would be able to stand without the co-operation of the Founder (me) and of the Grand Duke Mr. Void.Remember all of the s_it thrown at me over (ahem) "other peoples nations"? Or is Shireroth Really trying to sink to the level of VC Cyberia?

May I point out that you are banned here, Jacobus? And also the fact that Shireroth doesn't give away land, and that you should have thought of that when you first gave it to Shireroth in the first place? Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

As I said before, if you want to make a trade, I'll give up the sovereignity of Greater Automatica, including all forums and materials I developed for it, in exchange for Lac Glacei.If not, then I am still within my rights to secede Greater Automatica and thus "take away" Shireroth's oh-so-precious land anyway.I believe it's a fair trade. GA has more in common with Shirerithian history and culture than LG does. Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

The Kaiser could simply destroy the treaty if he wants to, if said treaty existed. If the treaty does not exist, you have no rights whatsoever to secede other than that the Kaiser has explicitly granted you. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

...how come land claims always come up during MY reigns?

The then Kaiser granted me special rights to GA in that, at the time, due to school and other restraints, I had intended to leave this hobby for an extended period. GA was to become a Shirerithian protectorate with the explicit option to secede whenever I choose to do so with it upon my return. I frankly don't give a shit if it's in writing or not. I left GA in Shirerithian hands in the good faith that I could trust this state to uphold a deal and the request of an old friend.But perhaps my trust was misplaced. Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

Quote:The then Kaiser granted me special rights to GA...That's the problem, then. A future Kaiser can do whatever he wants and declare previous decrees null and void. I'm not defending it, mind you, just making a point.Plus, I hate the two Automaticas there anyways. I prefer New Jasonia to be renamed to Automatica. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);Edited by: Bill3000 at: 11/27/05 22:25

I have no idea who the Kaiser was when Ryan gave us Greater Automatic and we can discuss that issue separately, although I will say that I don't consider it a very good deal for us as he has never felt any agreement that he signed today prevented him from trying to claim the land tomorrow. Of course, if there is some reason to believe the Kaiser wanted him to be able to take back the land at will, then that is a different story.But the important part, and the part I feel Ardashir needs to be convinced of, is that there is no need for Shireroth to negotiate any sort of treaty with the Grand Commonwealth over Lac Glacei because they demonstrably have NO LEGITIMATE CLAIM, nor does Ryan. Ryan gave his claim to Treesia in the Occidental Agreement. Treesia gave their claim to us via Article 9 of Southsailing (or Northfloating, whichever it was, my witty confusing treaty names comes back to haunt me). If any party to those agreements does not believe Shireroth owns Lac Glacei, then they might as well come out and saying they're unilaterally breaking off the treaties that have maintained peace there for the past year or two. Edited by: Scott of Hyperborea  at: 11/27/05 22:49

Quote:although I will say that I don't consider it a very good deal for us as he has never felt any agreement that he signed today prevented him from trying to claim the land tomorrow.I strongly resent that remark. I believe my tenure at the MCS over the past three years, coupled with my work to contribute some meaningful material to this hobby, should have made up for any past transgressions. I apologised to Erik for the Cimmeria dispute and you should remember that because we both came out, in public, and buried the hatchet. Or so I thought. In addition, Lac Glacei is the only dispute over land I have had with Shireroth in well over four years. So that statement was totally uncalled for. That's hitting below the belt, Scott.I'd like to see what you would do if someone tried to take Hyperborea away from you. Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

Quote:I strongly resent that remark. I believe my tenure at the MCS over the past three years, coupled with my work to contribute some meaningful material to this hobby, should have made up for any past transgressions.Your latest decision has proven otherwise. That's besides the point, though.Hey, Ryan? How about you stick to a territory that you founded instead of latching on to territories people have given to you, legally or otherwise? Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

I have a compromise (they say compromises are solutions neither party like).We give Lac Glacei to Natopia. GC and Shireroth agree to that

how about we annex the GC. If you feel an icy chill...the Conglacio is amongst you

Lac Glacei is ours, Ric.They have NO LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT WHATSOEVERFilthy little Babkhanses...If you cant handle it Ric, let me go.... I can make my point herad, LOUD and clear

Aw, this is sweet Bill. You're getting on with Oz *gives Billy a hug* Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti

I don't recall giving LG to Shireroth. It kind of landed here almost by accident. I've acquiesced rather than start yet another war.My rights are primary in LG. Mr. Void has subsidiary rights that I have granted to him. Shireroth's rights are tertiary.How can the Government of Shireroth in good conscience blast me about the various incarnations of AlterCyberias that I have been involved with, and yet stand up self-righteously regarding LG&C?Regards,JacobusDGetVxPopC&LGImpRexMal&C(Jacobus, by the Grace of God and the Voice of the People Emperor of Cognito & La Glacei, Rex Mala'anje and of his other dominions beyond the Sea)"Give it back to little Smeagol,yes, and he will do lots of good things, especially to nice hobbitises."

Emperor Jacobus,You're free to join Lac Glacei here in Shireroth and through legal means try have Lac Glacei secede.

Jacobus.... honestly...We ahve more claim to Lac Glacei and Cognito then many a nation does.. and for once.. I think I have Conglacio's AND Bill's support ont his one... something previously unheard of. (Runs off to submit an entry to Guiness)

Ric, I don't know if you were around for it or not.. but somewhere there is a law that states any land Shireroth holds cannot be seceded regardless... once its ours, its ours until we nuke it.. it seems

By legal means I meant changing the laws And I personally feel that Lac Glacei is Elwynnese, part of Elwynn and part of Shireroth. But having a large part of my population, including the Steward and the Count of Lac Glacei maintaining that Shireroth is illegally occupying the land... That just feels really, really odd.

been there, done that. I came to Shireroth for sanctuary in the near past, to end my micronational conflicts and live in peace. All that happened was a small poinaird (sp?) right above the floating ribs on the right side. Metaphorically speaking, of course.Nevertheless, my residual respect for the idea of Shireroth and various Shirerithians keeps me from solving things in my own fashion.Those formerly in power in Shireroth, in collusion with the enemies of peace and righteousness, participated in a serious attempt to blackball me in this sector. I would like a declaration by Her Imperial Majesty that the Treaty of Shirekeep is null and void due to misconduct by all parties formerly adhereing thereto.This is only justice.

Quote:Filthy little Babkhanses...Says the person who is in a Duchy mostly comprised of Babkhans. Edit: I hereby decree "mostly" to be greater than or equal to the proportion two out of six. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);Edited by: Bill3000 at: 11/28/05 17:17

I'd forgotten about Mar Sara. That was too long ago to be called into recent history in regards to making agreements. By those standards we could call into play our actions at the AIN back in 2000. We've all changed since those days.Note that I am not here arguing about the claim. If it was of such a concern to me, I'd have tried to retake Lac Glacei a long time ago. I am here arguing because I am rather tired of people besmirching my name here all the time over incidents which happened years ago and which I've more than repented for. There's no reason for anyone to be talking badly of my honour and relability. Especially in relation to such aged events.And in regards to the GA treaty, it was a post made to the General Discussion forum. Are those archives hidden or were they lost in the hacker attack? Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

He's welcome to try and get it to secede through legal means? Wait...what? No he isn't!And Ryan, I definitely remember a lot of problems with you and Mar Sara, although I can't remember whether that involved Shireroth, Alexandros, or even Menelmacar. I have only a vague recollection of the incident, but it was something like you gave Mar Sara to the country, then a few months later you made a forum and a little bit of culture for it and said that since you were more culturally invested in it, it should be yours. Correct me if this never happened.I was not at all slighting your tenure as MCS cartographer, during which I have always thought and still do think you're doing an excellent job and being as unbiased as can reasonably be expected.As for Hyperborea, I would be very upset if someone tried to take it away from me, which is why I've never given it to any other country without it being very clear that I am permitted to secede whenever I wish. Thus far I've never taken advantage of that permission, but if it's ever necessary, I will. This agreement was negotiated between Erik and I, and I consider it still in effect, just as I said above that if you can produce evidence that there was an agreement between you and some Kaiser regarding Automatica, I would consider it still in effect. Edited by: Scott of Hyperborea  at: 11/28/05 17:32

Ryan, why do you want LG so badly? You barely have time for your current commitments. There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

I have always wanted LG, Greg, ever since I built the independent Grand Duchy. And it is a desire I have buried away in me just so I didn't aggravate the situation.As I said before, I am not here arguing the status of LG. I am here defending my name against constant slander.Of course, now I am also here defending my longstanding agreement over Greater Automatica as well. Which seems awful convenient that people suddenly "can't remember it". Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

Quote:What about Scott and Hyperborea then? Seems to me that there are a lot of biased exceptions in effect within the mechanisms of Shireroth. While Scott said he chooses not to exercise the right, he said he might if he had too and he still has that right nonetheless.Normally I would agree if the nation was not Shireroth. But this is Shireroth. It has been known from the start that Shireroth gobbles up nations and refuses to give it back. Scott would have just as hard of a problem in trying to have Hyperborea secede, although I would guess less as he is a Shirerothian and isn't me.If Tapfer joined Shireroth, I would be feeling just as frustrated as you do, and would have just the same problems. Indeed, I'd like to mention that I probably have more of a claim to Mar Sara, considering the fact that both was north and south Mar Sara was Tapferite territory since the fall of Jasonia. That doesn't mean that I could secede, because as I said before, tragically, Shireroth, for the better or worse, does not give up land. Ever. You are seriously lucky you managed to reduce the claims of Shireroth through Lac Glacei on the map as it is, as I would think that Shireroth would have probably blown your head off.It's probably better to realize these philosophies Shireroth has and had since its tranformation into an Empire ever since Gong Li was first annexed ages ago after the second UAS riots. It's just no good. If I wanted to, I could make a point about Amity, but that is six years too late. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

Honestly, you seem fairly honest so I have no reason to doubt you, but I can't even remember yesterday. There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

Quote:No, you've changed too, Bill. Instead of being the fragmented, annoying and immature 16-year-old, you've graduated to being a well-spoken, annoying and immature 19-year-old.Congratulations.I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or thank you, so I'll do all three. I'd quote you, but I don't have enough room. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

Quote:We've all changed since those days.I'd like to point out that your post in Antya shows that you do not believe this.And actually, I'm happy that they remember. For once, an event in the past is remembered, and previous reputation remained instead of forgotten.Quote:And I personally feel that Lac Glacei is Elwynnese, part of Elwynn and part of Shireroth. But having a large part of my population, including the Steward and the Count of Lac Glacei maintaining that Shireroth is illegally occupying the land... That just feels really, really odd.Both of those citizens are more active in the Grand Commonwealth, Iain especially - he just posts here to lay his claims and is not actually doing anything in the nation (nor has he in a very long time.). I can freely say that this is a truth instead of a blatent generalization as usual. Check their loyalties first before they try to manipulate you like this.By the way, secession is illegal in Shireroth with the sole exception of if there is a treaty that permits it, and that is only if the Kaiser honors said treaty. Remember that the Kaiser has absolute power over all his subjects. That's not the case here though, as the Kaiser would have to decree Lac Glacei's independence, which, considering Shireroth's longstanding "Shireroth does not give away land" tradition, will not happen, and isn't something that should happen given the other pressing matters that should be pushed. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);Edited by: Bill3000 at: 11/28/05 19:09