Shireroth

It would appear that I was wrong then... Edited by: RicLyon at: 10/20/05 14:56

Yeah. What he said. Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

Scott, I live in Artjärvi, Finland. I can vote in Artjärvi's municipal elections but not in neighbouring Orimattila's. Still both are in Finland in which I'm a citizen. How's that different?

And just to add a bit more complication, I can apply for citizenship in Shireroth, but I have to be put in a subdivision at some point. Just thought I would mention that. *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

If *I* wanted to vote in Artjärvi's municipal elections, I wouldn't head down to Artjärvi City Hall and ask to be able to vote there. I would first have to become a citizen of Finland and *then* choose to live in Artjärvi. It's the same with Shireroth's Duchies - if I wanted to be part of Brookshire, I would join Shireroth and then move to Brookshire.As far as I know, in the Grand Commonwealth I would apply to Babkha and be part of Babkha and vote in Babkhan elections. The Grand Commonwealth would never come into the picture.But I could be wrong, so how about this: You get the Grand Commonwealth legislature to pass a law saying the Grand Commonwealth is one nation and that its components are merely mildly autonomous subdivisions along the lines of US States. You don't even have to formally pass it - just get someone official to say that's the official GC line and have no one object too much. If you do that, I will be happy to count Karnali and Babkha as part of the same country. I don't think that will ever get through, though I'm willing to be proven wrong.I have always imagined the GC as rather like the EU. The EU is a great thing, and very strong, but it does not mean that England and France are not two completely separate countries, or even that I can travel to Greece from Ireland without horrible border complications that landed me in jail for a while.

I would ask His Niftiness to back up his statement that we are allied with the Grand Commonwealth. The last change in status I recall was Kaiser Alejian I's statement that we would break off our alliance with the Grand Commonwealth and remain neutral in any conflict between them and SPEAR. As far as I know that has not yet changed.I like Ric. I believe Ric is loyal to Shireroth. But there is such a thing as rule of law. I believe that dual citizens should not have sensitive positions, especially when these positions involve the risky business of leading other dual citizens. Other people believe that dual citizens are fine doing whatever they want. The Landsraad worked out a compromise that satisfies most people. It doesn't matter what we think of Ric personally, if that compromise is not kept, or annuled by the proper means, then we cannot call the Landsraad a legislative body at all.The Grand Commonwealth is trying to have it both ways with regards to their status as a national power. The fact is that I could become a citizen of Babkha and Karnali but not of Aerlig and Lemuria, or vice versa. In that case, I would be able to vote in Babkhan and Karnali elections but not in Aerliger or Lemurian elections. That, to me, is as good a definition of citizenship as you will come across, and to say that nothing has changed if I leave Babkha and Karnali and join Aerlig and Lemuria is silly. I further note that there is no such thing as Grand Commonwealth citizenship: I cannot join the Grand Commonwealth without joining a particular member country. Just because the countries are in an arrangement regarding foreign affairs does not make them any less independent as regards citizenship. Edited by: Scott of Hyperborea  at: 10/20/05 22:32

If I remember correctly your prison time could have happened in Ireland as well; the regulations are the same. As for needing a passport leaving Ireland to the continent it's only because the Irish are British loving pussies. And about the official line of GC being a nation; can't say anything about that, too political for my position. Perhaps the Taoiseach, now that he's back, could elaborate.

One must choose somewhere to live before they can be a citizen of the GC... just as one must choose a state in Australia to live in before getting Australian citizenship. Like Australian local councils, I may vote in multiple council elections if I claim residence in these areas.The GC Federation is like the Australian Commonwealth federation. States have granted their powers to the Commonwealth, and are all a part of it. They may not leave without the permission of other members, just like in Australia. That makes them units of the GC. Like Australian states though, they retain all specific powers not specifically granted to the Commonwealth. This includes citizenship. ejen ranti taicardainre (Lachlan Powers)The Grand Commonwealth - Aerlig - MNN - Treesia - mncentre - EIFA - Lemuria

Um, that would have been a good example if we knew what Australia was like. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

Quote: these restrictions may be given an exception by the Kaiser at any time,that would be implying that the law can restrict the almightypower of the kaiser.by saying this, you are treasonas....which is spelt wrong, I know....but it could have been worse...I could has said you were treesianus If you feel an icy chill...the Conglacio is amongst you

I wasn't aware Australia worked that way. Do you mean that if I, as an American, wanted to change my citizenship to Australia, I wouldn't go to any immigration service in Canberra but rather talk directly to New South Wales or Queensland or somewhere, and that that state could make me an Australian citizen?And does this mean it is the official position of the Commonwealth that its member states are no longer independent nations, or not? Edited by: Scott of Hyperborea  at: 10/21/05 7:49

Quote:Your welcome.Quote:As always, you're bladed hand stands beside you in your decision.If they were anyone else, I would be sure this was deliberate... The league of sadistic telepaths: "There's someone in your head and it's not you"

*glare* There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

It's the fact that Scott didn't point that out that suprises me the most. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

*glares some more* There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

Quote:I wasn't aware Australia worked that way. Do you mean that if I, as an American, wanted to change my citizenship to Australia, I wouldn't go to any immigration service in Canberra but rather talk directly to New South Wales or Queensland or somewhere, and that that state could make me an Australian citizen?No but you must first be a resident in one state before you can become a citizen of Australia. There is no Australian territory, just like there is no GC territory, where one can live and not be a part of any state. Australia has no citizenship defined in the constitution, and therefore it is only what legislation makes it. If you claim having the vote is citizenship, then yes, one must be a citizen of a state and the Commonwealth. The only reason the Aust. Commonwealth govt can grant citizenship is cause this power was given to it in the Constitution, this wasnt done in the case of the GC. ejen ranti taicardainre (Lachlan Powers)The Grand Commonwealth - Aerlig - MNN - Treesia - mncentre - EIFA - Lemuria

But the different parts of Australia are not seperate sovereign nations with their own specific governments, consititutions, et al., neh? Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

They are to the the degree that they, like GC nations, may leave the Commonwealth with a vote of their state and the Commonwealth (just like in the GC). All that differs is the powers the GC has compared to Australian Commonwealth.Each state does have their own govt, constitution etc. State Parliaments control Education, Health etc... most things except foreign affairs, defence and other items states give to the Commonwealth.Edit: Damn posting with the wrong login. Taoiseach Taicardainre IThe Grand Commonwealth - Aerlig - MNN - Treesia - mncentre - EIFA - LemuriaEdited by: Taoiseach Taicardainre I at: 10/23/05 15:35

"Each of our states are independent" - you, in the Grand Commonwealth.As far as I can see, that settles the issue.

Any Australian State politician would argue that the Australian states are independent. It is the exact same thing... Commonwealth-State politics.Wrong login.... QQWWWWACCCKKK! Edited by: Quack McDuck at: 10/27/05 6:33

Independent? I'm not sure we're using that word the same way. An independent state is a country that isn't controlled by anyone else and which could, for example, seek UN membership. In the US, we talk about winning our independence from Britain, which means that we completely cut off all political relations and became our own state (used in the nation-state sense). Is that the sense in which the Australian states are independent, and if so, why do we talk of "Australia" at all?

Quote:why do we talk of "Australia" at all?While I'm not taking part in the discussion itself, that's a very good question.

Well if we are to drop the Australian argument then since you all appear American-centric.... since the Grand Commonwealth handles all foreign affairs then having a treaty with us only recognises one nation... the GC. Therefore, you could not recognise a citizen as having citizenships in all the GC states, as the GC is the only nation being recognised. It is the only entity that deals intermicronationally.