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Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:21 pm
by Malliki Tosha
Or each nation wishing to do so could do that in an internal law, specifying the degree of jurisdiction the CC would have.
For example:
The SC member Somenation does not have a court of their own on account of being too small. Somenation's parliament, Someparliament, makes a law that establishes the CC as Somenation's court. When hearing cases, the CC would apply Somenation law.
Example 2:
Whateveristan has a court, but wishes to make their judicial system more fair by adding an appelate court. Instead of getting another citizen to sit on that court, they make the CC their appelate court.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:29 pm
by Erik Mortis
That makes the most sense to me.
So, with that resolved. I shall officiallize this treaty as the Final draft if there are not other comments or objections.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:31 pm
by Malliki Tosha
Just that a provision should be put in that allows individual signatory nations the ability to make the CC their "own" court, completely or in part.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:39 pm
by Erik Mortis
We have a whole other treaty for that in the thread. Few were interested.
Try this.
Convention on the Establishment of a Commonwealth Court. (draft 4)
1.Any State who has signed and ratified the General Membership Treaty and been accepted into the Commonwealth, may sign and ratify, in accordance with its own constitutional procedure, the present Convention on the Commonwealth Court
2.The Parties to this Convention hereby establish the Commonwealth Court (“CC”, “the Court”) as an independent and free court of justice and law.
3.The Court shall have jurisdiction over matters pertaining to international dispute between signatory nations.
4.The Court shall have the power to interpret the Treaties and Conventions of the Commonwealth, subject to the Treaties and Conventions themselves.
5.The Court shall consist of a panel of three jurists independent of the government of the participatory States, elected by the signatory nations of this treaty. The election shall be overseen by the Primate of the Commonwealth. The Jurists of the Commonwealth Court need not be national representatives.
6. Disputes within a nation about a treaty or convention are dealt with by the concerning nations established court.
7. A signatory nation may grant, through the legal processes of that nation, additional powers to the Commonwealth Court, within the Jurisdiction of that signatory nation. The Commonwealth Court is not required to hear cases stemming from this clause.
8.This Convention may be amended by a qualified majority of the State Parties exceeding three fourths of the votes cast.
I added a few things actually. Panel member don't need to be reps. The Court doesn't have to see case passed up to it from nations if it doesn't want to.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:44 pm
by Malliki Tosha
7. is what I was after. Looks good.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:47 pm
by Erik Mortis
Well, I'll wait a day if there are no other issues, I'll consider it the final draft, put it in place and put it to vote in the Landsraad of Shireroth.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:49 pm
by Malliki Tosha
This also gives the CC a lot of leeway in organizing itself.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:24 pm
by Andreas the Wise
Looks good.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:53 am
by Maximilian
I've posted it in the Lagerhuis and I think there will be no problems with this final draft.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:30 am
by Erik Mortis
I declare this the final draft and am putting it in the list of signable treaties.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:12 pm
by Malliki Tosha
I'm just wondering when the appointment process for the CC judges will start? I anticipate that Shireroth will have signed the treaty within the next couple of days.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:20 pm
by Erik Mortis
Let's wait till we get 3 nations signed on. Then hold the vote. I'm hoping we could get at least half the SC nations to sign on.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:09 am
by Andreas the Wise
I'm working on getting Gralus to sign it.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:20 am
by Maximilian
Batavia will sign the treaty within the next couple of days. (At least, that is what I expect. I'm not entireley sure of course).
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:28 am
by Harald of Froyalan
I have put the matter of this Treaty before the Council of State.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:35 am
by Harvey Steffke
It has been proposed in Nelaga as well, though it will be 5 days before we accept it.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:49 am
by Arviður
Hurmu would like to be part of the process, as it proposed this, but awaits final confirmation of membership and economy first.
Wait a few days, please?
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:51 am
by Erik Mortis
oh. Yeah. Just consider yourself confirmed. It's obvious everything is fine on that found.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:24 pm
by Malliki Tosha
So, there is only one court treaty, right? There is no need for a second one to confer internal powers to the CC, since 7. in the Court treaty does that.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:32 am
by Erik Mortis
This is correct.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:33 am
by Maximilian
The Batavian Lagerhuis has agreed on signing the Convention. This doesn't mean Batavia has officially signed the convention, because the King is the only person with the power to do so.
Batavia will also sign the treaty on forum based weapons.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:17 am
by Björn Ironfist
I feel REALLY bad now...since I wasn't around for the formation and debate on this Convention. I actually have a question about one portion. While I realize this is already finalized, maybe someone can set aside my worry for me.
5.The Court shall consist of a panel of three jurists independent of the government of the participatory States
If I am reading this correctly, we are saying that those who become Jurists must not be anyone who has an official position within their nation's government? If that is the case, what would happen should a smaller nation join the SC, wherein ALL citizens are active in government? Would this mean said nation would be ineligible to put someone up for the position of Jurist? If so, that seems rather unbalanced.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:26 am
by Ari Rahikkala
Pretty sure it's supposed to mean that the participant nations aren't supposed to control the jurists' decisions or their selection. Would be weird if it didn't because, yeah, government positions are kind of the *point* of micronationalism
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:29 am
by Jonas
Max, don't forget to mention Gert his willingness to become judge.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:37 am
by Björn Ironfist
Ari Rahikkala wrote:Pretty sure it's supposed to mean that the participant nations aren't supposed to control the jurists' decisions or their selection. Would be weird if it didn't because, yeah, government positions are kind of the *point* of micronationalism
If this is the intention, would it be asking just way too much that this be clarified? I hate to be a pain in the arse-area.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:38 am
by Malliki Tosha
Good to have a Dutch speaking judge.
Björn: It is pretty clear to begin with. The judge are to not be influenced by their national government, and it would be hard for a head of government to sit for example. In the end it's up to the delegates to vote for independent candidates.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:48 am
by Björn Ironfist
Sorry for being a noob, but I don't see this as clear. You say they are not to be influenced by their government. How would that be genuinely possible if they are, say a Minister? Nationalism and loyalty wouldn't affect them?? I will simply defer my argument. Since everyone else seems to understand it - no reason I should. I will trust that the vast majority of us are correct and I am the one who just doesn't get it.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:24 am
by Harvey Steffke
Well, human beings being who they are, I think the idea is to try your very best to keep your duties as a judge separate from any positions or loyalties to your home nation. Being in gross violation of that sort of policy is probably grounds for dismissal of some sort though none of this is all that clear on the whats or hows.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:29 am
by Maximilian
I think there will be no problem finding Dutch speaking judges. Three Batavians are willing to be judge.
Re: Commonwealth Court Convention
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:10 am
by Björn Ironfist
Harvey Steffke wrote:Well, human beings being who they are, I think the idea is to try your very best to keep your duties as a judge separate from any positions or loyalties to your home nation. Being in gross violation of that sort of policy is probably grounds for dismissal of some sort though none of this is all that clear on the whats or hows.
Sounds good to me! Makes sense.