Shireroth

I hope he does it on a fishday

EDIT/ADDITION: Jess, you, as a long time Yardistani, should know that we tend to jest in the spirit of friendship. From our perspective, the Ocians seem to be trying to poke and prod us into starting a war. That's all fine and dandy, it's what Ocians do. This is our way of saying no.

Andreas the Wise wrote:Jess, that's probably the most well reasoned and touching things I have ever seen you say...

A strong argument for it, in all likelihood, being ghost written by somebody else.

Yes, but the only person who would plausibly ghost-write it would be Kovac, and it doesn't really contain enough overblown bombastic denunciations of East Ocia to look like his handiwork.

He wouldn't really have to make reference to them, we have provided them with a rich seam of indignation that quite eclipses the pesky Ost-Ocia question.

I don't really see what else they could possibly do... but yeah. Maybe this wasn't the greatest idea for a decree.

People keep disagreeing with this decree ):

Seriously, Ocia is full of douchebags and those in Ocia who aren't douchebags have their voices drowned out by those who are. We have no reason to care about our relations with them. This decree is unfunny, as are most micronational attempts toward lulz (ask me about my opinion regarding the Laughocracy sometime!), but it's not a bad decree.

Jess is quite capable of writing that note. He is much brighter than he is given credit for hereabouts. Jus t because someone plays the foole well does not make him one in perpetuity.

Trust me, I'd know.

But this gives me a good idea........

Ari Rahikkala wrote:Seriously, Ocia is full of douchebags and those in Ocia who aren't douchebags have their voices drowned out by those who are. We have no reason to care about our relations with them. This decree is unfunny, as are most micronational attempts toward lulz (ask me about my opinion regarding the Laughocracy sometime!), but it's not a bad decree.

+1

To be honest not only am I completely bewildered by whatever is going on here, I'm surprised because in the past I saw Shireroth as a moderate and easy going nation and I did not think that such a nation with a friendly reputation would so quickly jump to conclusions. Jess Heimer's role within the Ocian Federation is solely a regional leader and he has no power or bearing whatsoever on the Federal level. Statements which he makes personally are not Ocia's foreign policy, and that sort of mentality is very dangerous. If a Shirerothian were to, just as you all are now, begin to trash talk Ocia I would not at all consider it to be Shireroth's official foreign policy. To be honest I am rather disappointed that in a fervour of anti-jess rage, some shirerothians have been blinded from seeing the reality of the positive relations our two nations have had and have taken it upon themselves to make rash generalizations.

I can only echo the statements I made in our Ministry of Exterior (http://ociagov.proboards.com/index.cgi? ... 275&page=1) underlining the positive and fruitful relationship the Ocian Federation and Shireroth have maintained in the past and the fact that any official foreign policy decisions/announcements are made through the office of the President of the Ocian Federation or the Ministry of the Exterior of the Ocian Federation. I am very disappointed to be frank with Jess' attitude which is seemingly responsible for turning a very personal dispute between an Ocian and a Shirerothian into a blown out national slandering competition. I have and will continue to urge jess to exercise restraint in this situation and to not make any statements on Ocia's behalf. Mr. Heimer does not speak on behalf of his 'Ocian bretheren'

Lastly, any statements made by our Ministry of Information referring to anyone as ‘fascist’ or ‘imperialist’ are us talking about either the bosworthians or the east Ocian breakaway region. Just a btw I didnt write that message or help him write that message, but he stole my a thousand fold retaliation line...dammit just when I was going to use it for something else.

Jess Heimer's role within the Ocian Federation is solely a regional leader and he has no power or bearing whatsoever on the Federal level. Statements which he makes personally are not Ocia's foreign policy, and that sort of mentality is very dangerous.

I agree, that mentality is dangerous. Let me make it clear that this applies to me also and what I'm about to say does not in the slightest reflect the opinion of Shireroth, her government, her people, or indeed her god, the god, Bacchus. I don't know anything about an anti-Jess rage. Jess was until recently a valued and much beloved member of Shireroth for all his quirks- we all have them, and some identify them as faults. His departure and potential future attacks against the Imperial Republic will of course represent mere bitterness at what has happened recently and not a serious hatred of this nation. On the other hand, I've never liked Ocia and feel that Jess' temporary bitterness + Ocia = trouble. Further, I wasn't aware of any fruitful relationship between Ocia and Shireroth, and feel such a thing would be inappropriate and generally a bad idea.

Which is why you are not MiniEx... Please stop scaring off the clientele/other nations

Matt Kovac wrote:To be honest I am rather disappointed that in a fervour of anti-jess rage, some shirerothians have been blinded from seeing the reality of the positive relations our two nations have had and have taken it upon themselves to make rash generalizations.

Aaactually my opinion of Ocia or the Ocias comes from a mixture of sheer ignorance, having an occasional look at threads at the MCS whose subject is something to the effect of "look at this wacky/douchebaggy thing this Ocian did", and of hanging out on #micronations which has regulars such as Artz and Nickolas of Livlandia. Jess's leaving merely amuses and disappoints me

Leo wrote:Which is why you are not MiniEx... Please stop scaring off the clientele/other nations

If you consider Ocia to be clientele, I do not envy your job.

All are equal in my eyes.

Except maybe Allot... He doesn't need to know that.

Just a btw I didnt write that message or help him write that message, but he stole my a thousand fold retaliation line...dammit just when I was going to use it for something else.

I think you both stole that from North Korea...............or else they stole it from you!

Leo wrote:All are equal in my eyes.

Make that, "All are equal in union under Bacchus in my eyes" and I'd agree with you.

This is what happens when you act before you think.

I'm not exactly sure why relations are now being terminated...and why exactly everyone here all of a sudden has ill-feelings with regards to the Federation but I suppose its a done matter.

Matt, I was going to say that this is relations terminated under this Kaiseress and another Kaiser may choose to pursue them again (it's how our Imperial government works - the top person has the final say) ... but your posts on reunification really are quite painful. If you really wanted reunification of the Ocian people in RL, you would have answered Montague calmly and not said that, whatever he thinks, you don't want him involved in the reunification. If you don't want the citizens of the other nation, you don't want reunification, you just want the land and them to give up. And I don't think that is an action Shireroth wants to support, and as such, while you continue in this vein, I think the Kaiseress is fully justified in terminating relations. There is a path for Ocia to rejoin the international community, but it involves giving up hypocrisy, making peace and not merely telling the world how terrible your enemies are.

Ah, there's the explanation I was looking for. We really need to update our treaty repository. I have instructed the MiniEx to discontinue his diplomatic contacts with Ocia for the time being. I feel that with this whole reunification thing coupled with growing tensions between Ocia and Ashkenatza, we need to keep our distance a bit. The university cooperation can continue though, since it is more on a cultural level than a political.

I'm kind of convinced by what Matt just said. Whatever we may feel about Ocia's internal problems, they've been nothing but impeccably polite and helpful to Shireroth, and they deserve more professionalism and basic kindness from us than this.

I think it's time to start thinking of the Ocians as people like Bill or Jacobus, who can sometimes go crazy and alienate everyone, but who are also capable of really good work and important contributions when they stop feeling like everyone's persecuting them all the time.

I'm not saying we have to let them take their conflicts here, or even have warm relations with them, but they deserve better than this decree.

I think it's time to start thinking of the Ocians as people like Bill or Jacobus, who can sometimes go crazy and alienate everyone, but who are also capable of really good work and important contributions when they stop feeling like everyone's persecuting them all the time.

Okey.

I will not say anything bad about Ocia preemptively. Scott has a point, fair is fair.

From earlier on in the year...

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