On the Citizenship Bounty Reform bill

[Erik Mortis]

First we need to fix the system to prevent any further imbalance, then we can talk about fairness. But. They did get the money under the old system, that was fair. Honestly, I don't hear anyone complaining about fairness, that they aren't getting their money.

The old sums will in theory balance themselves back out with some time. We just have to prevent any more imbalance.

[Andreas the Wise]

You have to set the cut-off point somewhere.

I am. I'm setting it right back at the start. I'm saying "Look, if you're interpreting the bounties as more for the initial distribution make them for the initial distribution." Yvain + 100, Ardy + 200, Harold +200 are the only significant payouts we've made. So get each of them to put at least half of it back. Then we've basically reversed our payouts to just the initial distribution ... and then we can go forward from there with no payouts.

(I knew I shouldn't have given in and given Harold the money for being Steward for 3 days ...)

[Malliki]

This is why a clear set of rules are needed. I think the fairest is to say that from this and that date the new system is in place. Trying to get Erbs from people who have already gotten them seems to be the wrong way to go about things. Then perhaps the Erbs shouldn't have been payed in the first place.

[Andreas the Wise]

Um ... Mike, that's the attitude Hesam suggested, and the one I followed when I gave in to paying Harold ... it didn't work then, so ...

Either take it back to the start of the problem, or leave paying money for positions in, and after a few taxes, things will have sorted themselves out. Don't do these half measures which take away erb from the people who should get it in the future. I'd rather take 150 erb from two people for a clear reason than take a lot of erb from lots of people in the future which in fairness they should get also.
Wait .... actually, Yvain donated a bit to Jake, didn't he? Just take 100 off Harold and I'm happy (no offence Harold, but I really don't think you earnt 200 erb by being Steward for 3 days, and I knew I'd regret the decision of giving it to you. I'm happy for you to have lots of erb - I just want it to be because you actually earnt it, not because you effectively won the Kaiser approval lottery ...)

[Malliki]

Eh? You can't take Erb away from people who don't have them to begin with. Basing a continuation of this system on the fact that people won't get money they might or might not earn in the future sounds very strange. If I ever become a Duke, I expect to get the money that the system in place then awards me, if any. On the issue of Harold, perhaps three days is a bit too short to get anything? And on the earning of Erbs. Many of us now have Erbs given to us by the government for doing nothing, not Erbs that we've earned.

[Andreas the Wise]

Did you even read the thread where Harold was given erb?
http://shireroth.kuroshiro.net/forum/vi ... =14&t=8750
http://shireroth.kuroshiro.net/forum/vi ... =14&t=8802
The decision was only acceptable on the grounds that he wouldn't get paid out again, but others could attain that level.

EDIT: Harold, if you're reading this, if you just give 100 away to someone/s else for cultural development - it can be someone in your own Duchy - and save MiniTrade paying a bounty for it, I'll be happy.

[Erik Mortis]

Well, ardy is gone. So that money is dealt with.