Buying noble titles..

[Erik Mortis]

This is one of those, you get shot for it, kinda ideas...

but instead of paying people who become nobles, how bout people have to pay to become nobles. In theory... bear with me... you have to be active to be a noble, Active people make money, they contribute. So... if you can afford to buy your title, you are active enough to be a noble. Further, it would help relieve the burden on the Crown Account, when nobles change. Plus, prevent the problem of when you stop being a noble you can keep the money. However, nobles appointed directly by the Kaiser might be exempt, for those situation when the normal systems collapse.

Only Dukes and Barons will have to buy their titles. Although, since all citizens get some money for free when they join.. maybe they can opt to spend some to become a Count, and not just a commoner.

Any interest in this one?

[hypatias mom]

Are we talking all we have or a sane proportion? I would be willing to consider a small fee to become a high-level noble, but those of us who were selected for a noble position should not have to pay for that rank. I also think that paying now for a promotion in rank that happened long ago is not appropriate.

[Erik Mortis]

I suppose now people would just give back what they got before when they became a noble, for fairness to the next generation. And I would suggest a small and logical fee. What that is, I'll leave for the economists in the nation.

[hypatias mom]

Let's see what they come up with now...

[Ari Rahikkala]

* shoots Erik *

This would infringe on what I consider my rightful privileges as a duke. No-one in my duchy should have to pay the Imperial government if I want to move barons/counts around inside my duchy.

[Andreas the Wise]

I also far prefer being paid for becoming a noble than paying. It reflects the increase in power that goes with the position. Kildare shouldn't be beggared because it wants to change Dukes, for example.

[Hesam Jayatar]

I have to admit, I like Eriks idea.

If you think about it this way:

- People have money because they are supposed to have earned it by contributing to the nation.

- Charging people for a promotion means that they had to have contributed a certain amount of work to achieve a noble rank.

Since the economy is basically merit, it stands to reason that only those that contribute should be given higher rank. In addition, this would also essentially remove the need for taxes, or atleast limit the amount of tax we charge.

[Andreas the Wise]

I like the idea of being able to earn a noble title through sheer effort. Like, you contribute to the nation enough, you can by an unowned barony - or even buy the right to be a Duke (probably put that one at 500). But this should be in addition to the current process of appointing worthy Dukes, and anybody who actually contributes as a Baron. Say, for example ... me. For examples sake, say I'm active enough to be a Duke. But I can't be, because Jonas is, and he shows no signs of retiring soon. Under the present system, I have to wait. Under this system, if I worked real hard, I could have the right to buy my own Ducal title ... and nab a few counties from other duchies and set up my own.

[Jonas]

If you want to be Duke... you can ask it ofcourse...

[b3n|<3r|\|]

I agree with Ari, but I think that because Dukes are direct subjects of the Imperial Crown this could be extended to them. After all, Barons and Counts can often be reconfigured - especially since the passage of the Local Prerogative Act - but how often does the Kaiser reconfigure the Duchies?

[Malliki]

AFAIK, without consulting the laws (don't have the energy to), there is nothing preventing a duke from exchanging a baronial or countal title for money.

[Erik Mortis]

Well, the thing is you could only buy a title if there was a position open. So you couldn't just buy Jonas out of his position.

If nothing else, I think we should either stop, or greatly reduce the money you get for becoming a noble.

[Andreas the Wise]

Didn't actually want to buy Jonas out, it was a purely hypothetical example ...

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

It's sorta like Realn condeShofanyuna in Toketi, but it actually has bearing (the Tokian RcS is mostly for show. I have yet to get something actually implemented for it)...

I like it, personally. It should keep the crown account nice and cozy.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I don't dislike the idea of selling noble titles for money. But I do dislike the idea of banning other ways of getting noble titles. Nowadays, Dukes can appoint their own heirs and their own Barons. If this passed, we'd have to ban both of those practices, or else the option of auctioning off the title would never even come up. I'm not really prepared to deny those rights to Dukes.

[hypatias mom]

Why mess with a good tradition? Shireroth has never been just about money. I totally agree with Scott.

[Erik Mortis]

But it is now...

[Andreas the Wise]

No. Money is used to, to a degree, quantify the power relations that already exists, but it does not replace them totally. I agree with the others who agreed already with me - while buying a noble title is an interesting new way in this system, the old, tried and tested means of appointing people based on merit (instead of them appointing themselves based on merit) should not be done away with.

[Erik Mortis]

I never said this would replace the old system, just be added on top of it. Once appointed, you would have to come up with the money, with the amount being reasonable.

[Andreas the Wise]

See, I prefer appointees getting money ... to reflect the increased power you're meant to have in the system. Not being forced to pay.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

I think you should have the money to start with, before becoming Duke. Donations from people, business dealings and so on. Then you can afford to pay.

[Jacobus Loki]

I'm against this.

No surprise, huh?

In my very first MN, we charged for rank. It got very grim and lead to a civil war that nearly killed the nation.

It also lead to an inflation of titles that lead to no title being worth much (except for the King/Emperor and the High Council).

We didn't raise a whole lot of cash, but we did used all of the bribe money to support the currency.

Merit, not cash.

[Erik Mortis]

At the very least we should do away with giving money to people when they become nobles. Like was said.. if they have the power, they should already have the money. If they don't have the money, maybe they didn't quite deserve the power...

[Andreas the Wise]

You supporting Dukes and ex-Stewards returning the money they've received then?

[Erik Mortis]

I support not handing out money for titles anymore.

[Hesam Jayatar]

I'm just happy the economy is in use.

Although I'm going to begin working on ways to stop people from being so miserly.

[Erik Mortis]

Ways to get the money moving? Because it's not an economy if the money doesn't move.

[Malliki]

I think that ways for the money to move are underway big time. Stock exchange, companies, fees etc. Things will only progress.

[Jacobus Loki]

I want the money I was supposed to get to finance my charitable work.

A promise is a promise, and hey, wait, a promise is a joke, sorry, I forgot.

[Andreas the Wise]

Ways to get the money moving? Because it's not an economy if the money doesn't move.

I've bought two images and legal advice, and sold Hesam a sece. That's about the most movement I've seen in most micronational economies in a month ... and that's just the stuff caused by me. One person. It's moving ...