Regarding Imperial Decree No. 296

[Hesam Jayatar]

Section D: The Praetor: The Prætor of Shireroth may only be elected by the nobility of the land, from among the Full-Citizens of the Land. The Prætor does not have to be a Noble of Shireroth. The Kaiser shall manage the election of the Prætor by the Landsraad, and shall act as Prætor of the Landsraad until one is immediately elected. The Prætor of Shireroth shall preside over the Landsraad as chairman. His purpose and duty shall be to call a meeting of the Landsraad to order, tally votes, close votes, generally manage, and keep order within the Landsraad; as well as keep records of all bills and resolutions passed during his tenure. The Landsraad may further specify the powers of the Prætor within the Landsraad. The Prætor may not violate this Charter, Imperial Decrees, Landsraad Procedures, or the Lawbook.[/quote:s7on

Section C: Members of The Landsraad: The Landsraad shall consist of the Nobles of Shireroth.

he Prætor of Shireroth may only be elected by the nobility of the land, from among the Full-Citizens of the Land. The Prætor does not have to be a Noble of Shireroth.

Aside from the fact that the Praetor is not allowed to violate an Imperial Decree, the above quotes also prove that the Praetor is NOT a member of the Landsraad since ONLY nobility may be a member while the Praetor does not necessarily have to be.

[Malliki]

An Imperial Decree may also not violate the Charter, but that is conveniently ignored. Also, regarding the chairman of a body to not be a member of said body is attempting to bend things to fit one's own agenda.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

He is not a member of the body but it's agent.

[Hesam Jayatar]

This does not violate the charter. If the Praetor is not a member of the Landsraad (and he isn't) then there is no protection under the charter which states the Kaiser may not interfere with the Praetor. Since there is no definition of whether the Praetor is in fact a member of the Landsraad or not, we must use the definitions of who IS a member of the Landsraad, in conjunction with the definition of the Praetor.

Regardless of your opinion or mine, this is fact. There is nothing devious about it. If you don't like the current definitions, I'd suggest you propose a Bill to the Landsraad to change the status quo. Because as it stands right now, the Praetor is not a member of the Landsraad unless there is a separate law I'm not aware of.

[Malliki]

Convenient. What the Prætor does in the Landsraad is, as far as I am concerned, and I am confident that the Arbiter agrees with me, within the internal proceedings of the Landsraad and therefore for the Landsraad alone to decide.

I have before, and I do again, ask the Kaiser to repeal Imperial Decree 296 on account of it being in violation of the Charter and at least two provisions in the DecreeBook. That is my final word on the matter. The Arbiter may have a different view on this matter, and I will of course submit to his will on this.

[Hesam Jayatar]

But Mike, as I said, you and I are not the law. As well, is it legal for the Arbiter to decide on matters of the Landsraad?

[Malliki]

I haven't decided on anything. I said that it was my final word on the matter, not that the Judex somehow established what is and what isn't "the law". This is my opinion, and I am confident that the Arbiter agrees with me. Sorry if you misinterpreted.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Although we have disagreed on this point I wish to congratulate the assistant arbiter for upholding his office during this discussion.

[Hesam Jayatar]

No need to apologize Mike, I tend to slip in and out of the ability to comprehend the written English Language occasionally. What's worse, as a unilingual person, it's terribly inconvenient.

[Malliki]

Thank you, Your Grace. This will probably be resolved when the Kaiser comes online again.

[Erik Mortis]

The Praetor is a part of the Landsraad, thus protected by it's protections. I don't have time to argue as I should have been on the road an hour ago.

That is my official position. Regardless of whether he is a member, which I am not making a statement on, he is protected. The Kaiser/Steward has NO power over the Landsraad and it's functioning, including it's officers. Have I made this clear enough?

[Hesam Jayatar]

Yes, and I look forward to the legal citing which comes to this conclusion Your Honour.

[Erik Mortis]

To be fair, I don't have to cite anything to you. (The Kaiser is another story) This court has made a judgment, and you will abide by it. Call this... a Judicial Smackdown.

[Hesam Jayatar]

Can you not cite a legal precedent?

[b3n|<3r|\|]

I don't think he has to. But if I were him, I would... otherwise who knows what may happen... all sorts of forced resignations and dismissals.

[Malliki]

Mr. Jayatar, address this court with respect.

[Hesam Jayatar]

I did Sir, I am asking for the basis of this ruling. It is rather important to the well being of the law in this country and how it is handled. The Arbiter must be considered objective, if he is not, then how can he arbitrate?

[Malliki]

The Judex answers to the Kaiser and the Landsraad, not individual nobles or commoners.

[Hesam Jayatar]

And therefore the Judex is accountable to the Charter.

[Malliki]

But the Steward isn't?

[Hesam Jayatar]

What are we debating here? I'm asking for the legal framework which led to the Arbiters decision.

[Malliki]

1. "The Landsraad may set its own rules for voting percentages and procedures, and internal decorum, without outside interference."

Conclusion: No one may interfere with the internal workings of the Landsraad.

2. "The Prætor of Shireroth shall preside over the Landsraad as chairman. His purpose and duty shall be to call a meeting of the Landsraad to order, tally votes, close votes, generally manage and keep order within the Landsraad; as well as keep records of all bills and resolutions passed during his tenure."

Conclusion: The Prætor is an integral part of the internal workings of the Landsraad, and therefore protected by the section quoted in 1. Let's ask, are the duties of the Prætor integral to the Landsraad? The Prætor is chairman, he calls meetings to order, tallies votes, closes votes, generally manages and keeps order within the Landsraad. Those duties are quite essential to the internal workings of the Landsraad, and therefore the Prætor, regardless of his status as a noble or non-noble, is protected by the non-interference clause. Further, even if the Charter doesn't specifically state that the Prætor is a member of the Landsraad, he is protected, because the Charter does also not say that he isn't protected, and ruling that he is not protected would be detrimental to the ability for the Landsraad to conduct business in an efficient manner.

[Hesam Jayatar]

The Charter also states that members of the Landsraad must be nobles. Where as the office of the praetor does not have to be. If the praetor is not a noble how can he be a member of the Landsraad? The Charter does not say "No one may interfere with the legislative process" it says Landsraad specifically. I know the ruling, I have conceded my original point. But I believe we would do well to DEFINE this issue since it will likely become an issue again in the future.