A question, all knowing Yvain

[Andreas the Wise]

The Hallucigrad empire, that stretched from the old land of Blackrock to the Raynor Isles and all around the Lake in Kildare ...

Where exactly was it, in terms of modern Kildarian counties?

On the offchance anyone knows ...

[Jonas]

I'm pretty sure I saw a map of Kildare with the Hallucigrad Empire. Lesser Attera is part of it, but I'm sure everyone knows that.

[Andreas the Wise]

Can you find the map again?

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I've never heard of the Hallucigrad Empire before. Is it a con-history thing? I know there was the County of Hallucination, but that's clearly marked on the map. And I know the same guy who was in charge of it was in charge of Illumination in Elwynn, but I don't think it was an empire per se.

Hey, the old Count (Baron?) of Hallucination, Ozarka Monto, changed his name to Sebastien Alexandre and is now active in Alexandria. So if it's something he would know, go hunt him down in Alexandria and ask him.

[hypatias mom]

I didn't know he was still around. It's been quite a while since he was here.

[Andreas the Wise]

I've never heard of the Hallucigrad Empire before. Is it a con-history thing? I know there was the County of Hallucination, but that's clearly marked on the map. And I know the same guy who was in charge of it was in charge of Illumination in Elwynn, but I don't think it was an empire per se.

Hey, the old Count (Baron?) of Hallucination, Ozarka Monto, changed his name to Sebastien Alexandre and is now active in Alexandria. So if it's something he would know, go hunt him down in Alexandria and ask him.

It's in the wiki ...http://www.shireroth.org/shirewiki/Hallucination
Ok, the word Empire wasn't exactly used but that's what it came across as ...

[hypatias mom]

It never felt like an Empire while Dant Gryphon the Pure and his lady, Dutchess Hypatia Agnesi, ruled there. It was like a small kingdom, complete with its typical intrigues and personalities, and the richness of a fully-realized royal realm. The fictional histories I enjoyed so much were, sadly, lost in the EZBoard Hack, along with many other precious documents, so today's Shireritrhians can only guess at the richness that was Shireroth in those days. I spoke to Joe (Gryphon) in San Francisco about returning, but he said he lost heart when his years of work were lost forever. It is good to know that some of the former Shirerithians are still in micronationry, though, and I hope we will see them again on this forum.

[Andreas the Wise]

Kingdom, empire ... I tend to use them interchangeably ...

[hypatias mom]

But an empire wouild suiggest some globe-spanning rule. This little jewel is one very much located in time and space in a corner of the imagination. Its world is too intimate to suggest global reach and might.

[Andreas the Wise]

I can't believe I'm having an indepth discussion on the subtle differences between Empire and Kingdom. But anyway ...

Empire, to me, suggests something somewhat expansionary. Willing to grow. Not necessarily agressively, but expanding. The Hallucigrad situation fits that ... they started, obviously, in Old Hallucination, spread to Hallucigrad (the city) and at the height of their power controlled a number of counties around Kildare. That says, to me, "Empire" That, and the fact I've never heard of a Halluci King, and so it actually seems more historical fallacy to me to talk about a Kingdom without a King, rather than referring to a cultural force within a county spreading to a Barony and beyond as an "Empire". Empire's don't have to be globe spanning, but it went a decent bit around Kildare, or so I hear. Since Shireroth is huge and made up of many diverse people groups, one starting a small "empire" within Shireroth doesn't seem odd at all to me.

Kingdoms are generally stable, smaller things content to sit in one place for long periods of time. So Jacobus calls himself the "traditional King of the Mel'anje." I can believe that. Single island, sits there, doesn't do much, has a King. Where as if the Melangians were migrating and spreading Melangian culture all across Atterock, even if they never had someone named "Emperor", I'd consider it more earning of the word Empire. It sounds to me a cool historical way of describing what was essentially a one or two man cultural force that spread across counties (and assumedly the people spread too), even if its not entirely accurate.

On a totally different tack, in gaming, Kingdoms are good, and Empires are bad. Number 1 rule of RPGs. I'm not thinking in that sense though ...

[hypatias mom]

Andreas, actually never having lived under royalty in any way, shape, or form, I can only draw from the limited experience living in a democratic republic gives its citizens of foreign royal structures. One of the only empires with which we, as Americans, are usually acquainted is the British Empire, where, it was often boasted, the sun never set. This reach is so far beyond what the Halluci Dant's rule seemed to be, that I have trouble reconciling the two. Perhaps, as a member of the Commonwealth, you have a wholly different take on this. I imagine this to be the case, and I will defer in this to you.

[Andreas the Wise]

Oh, my opinion's entirely formed from fantasy reading ... (though the British Empire is a good example - it's a Kingdom, but when it gets big it becomes an Empire)