S.H.I.N.E. report on Sullifree and Lac Glacei

[Scott of Hyperborea]

SullifreeBabkha recently decided to invade the nation of Sullifree, in the form of posting "Hey, we invade you", and asking the MCS map to mark it as disputed.Sullifree protested and banned the "invaders", however, the MCS assented to mark the land as disputed. This made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.Sullifree decided to protect itself by becoming a protectorate of Natopia. In one sense, this is good, as Natopia is our friend. In another, it's bad, because this shouldn't have had to happen.Taoiseach Lachlan of the Grand Commonwealth ordered the Babkhans to call off the invasion, which is good. But his tone was one of "the Babkhans have every right to do this whenever they want, but at this point, since it would involve a conflict with Natopia, we're going to strategically pull back".A number of people are upset about this, and want Babkha to apologize for invading a sovereign country and promise never to do it again. They would also like for the MCS to have better policies about land disputes.In short, Babkha and to a lesser degree the GC are in diplomatic hot water right now. It would be nice to make it hotter if there was an easy way, but I can't think of one that's assured of working. I may talk to the King of Gotzborg at some point if I can find him. If the Kaiser wishes to condemn Babkha, they would probably deserve it.Lac GlaceiMore pressingly on us, the Grand Commonwealth seeks to claim Lac Glacei. In an orgy of poor planning which I recall warning against at the time, the two GCers pushing most strongly for Glacean annexation, Ardashir Khan and Iain de Vembria, are also, respectively, the Steward of Elwynn and the Count of Lac Glacei. Depending on how heavy-handed the Kaiser is willing to be, it may be advisable to change one or both of those facts.Iain is, to quote Eoin "as devious as a snake, and twice as slippery". If there is ANY WAY AT ALL that he can use his position as Count to help the Grand Commonwealth, he will find it and do it. I would suggest to the Kaiser and to any Shirerithian legal scholars that they make absolutely certain there is no such way. Switching him to another county mightn't hurt either. In fact, I will go out on a limb and prophesy HORRIBLE THINGS if you don't. Edité(e)(s) par: Scott of Hyperborea  à: 11/28/05 17:46

[AngelGuardian93]

The Ministry of Military Affairs stands ready to ban Iain outright, oust Ardy from his position (and his... ugh... ascention to the Landsraad...), and Purge Elywnn from it's disdainfull Babkhanese references.*ahem*I mean, that's my opinion. :PScott is entirely correct that LC is ours and that the kaiser needs to take extreme action. JAMES, WE CAN'T BE FLIMSY ON THIS ISSUE OR MORE ISSUES WILL FOLLOW! There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

I'm halfway there. Convince me a little more, guys.

[Zirandorthel]

*stops smoking his Kalamshahri cigar for a moment*They're very bad men, m'lady. Very bad.

[AngelGuardian93]

Us or them? :P There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I wouldn't go so far as to alienate either Iain or Ardy. My suggested plan of action would be to simply state that due to a conflict of interest you're not sure Iain is the right person to be Count of Lac Glacei and that you're going to strip him of that county and give him a nice county elsewhere. I suggest one of the ones in Lothlaria. You can even be really nice about it.This would have the added bonus of making Lac Glacei part of the Shirelands, and therefore meaning that Ardashir no longer has any effective control over it. You would definitely want to say this in whatever decree you used to do it; otherwise Iain or Ardy might assume that hadn't happened and claim control over it, and better to make it obvious that that route wouldn't work.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

Okay, help me phrase this.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Quote:The Throne realizes that the situation regarding the Shirerithian County of Lac Glacei is tense right now. Although we are willing to discuss the matter with Treesia and the Grand Commonwealth, and to consider possible compromises, we are determined that, until such negotiations conclude, Lac Glacei will remain in Shirerithian hands.The current Count of Lac Glacei is also the current Chairman of the Sovereign Order of Treesia, and the Throne feels this may present a conflict of interest in the future. Therefore, the County of Lac Glacei is hereby placed under the direct control of the Kaiser, and incorporated into the Shirelands.As Count Iain has served well in his position, and as we bear him no grudge, he is granted the larger and more prosperous County of Loralia, natural capital of the land of Lothlaria. If he prefers another County, he is welcome to choose that one instead, as long as it presents no political problems.Speaking of being willing to negotiate with Treesia, what about proposing a swap of Lac Glacei for Audentior? Lac Glacei's always going to be a problem, a lot of Shirerithians believe Audentior ought to be ours, and recstrategically it's just awful to let the GC keep a base in that position. Edité(e)(s) par: Scott of Hyperborea  à: 11/29/05 10:25

[AngelGuardian93]

That sounds desirable. There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

If we're going to propose the swap, I support proposing the swap before getting rid of Iain, just because I can't be 100% sure Iain won't respond to being deposed by attempting to secede.

[UEC]

I have no Love for what Bill will make of this... but I agree.. we have more right to Audentior then them. And LG is a constant thorn in our side..We need anti-seccession laws.. and we need them soon. I was gonna do that if I got the Kaisership... but I may just write some up and hand them to James to consider.If we need to..remove Iain. yes. do it. Scott statement is good.Elwynn scares me.. I've been warning about it since it's current inseption... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Permission to approach Iain over this issue?

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

You're a better diplomat than I. Granted. By my hand,Her Niftiness, The Resurrector: Semisa, First of the Name, Kaiseress of Shireroth, Protector of Comstokia, Overlord of the Duchies of Naudia'Diva, Elwynn, and Kildare, Thane of the Shirelands, Keeper of the Apollo Legacy, Grand Master of the Orders of the Dragon, Griffin, Phoenix, and Chimera, Wielder of Vengeance, Bearer of the Celestial Barrier, Countess of Shirekeep, Knight of the Dragon, Arsonirathius of Delvenus, Knight Companion of the Most Magnificent Imperial Order of the Sovereign Viking Crown, Princess of Hvalafell, Priestess of Cedrism, and Lady of the Golden Mango Throne.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Iain does not want to give up Audentior. However, he is willing to push for a different trade. We give them Lac Glacei get about a third of the island of Lemuria (which the GC and the MCS are having some problems with the ownership of).I say go for it. It's better than disputing Lac Glacei till kingdom come.The other possibility is to use Lac Glacei as a bargaining chip over Antica. Ryan rather wants Lac Glacei, and although I'm sure he would NEVER consciously let such a thing sway him, if we were to say something like "if Shireroth needs to give up land for this to work, perhaps we can give Lac Glacei to the GC"...well, who knows? I still need to talk to Ryan about this.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

I'd prefer the former option. Edité(e)(s) par: Kaiseress Semisa I  à: 11/30/05 17:17

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

Let me know. Soon.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

The Lemuria trade? Should I tell Iain it's a go? Ought it to be Landsraaded, when there is a Landsraad? Should we perhaps consult with Ric first?It might also be possible to abandon Lac Glacei to counterbalance Antica, in which case the GC couldn't get it as they cannot claim unoccupied land. In fact, I'd like to wait until I talk to Ryan about Antican land before you decree anything re:LG just in case Ryan says we have to give up land; it would be nice to keep LG as an option. Edité(e)(s) par: Scott of Hyperborea  à: 11/30/05 16:29

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Ryan has said yes to annexing Antica "as is". We still might have to deal with the Republicans, but we'll worry about that when it happens. Delphi, if you'll just give final approval to the treaty, Fax can decree it and we can get this show on the road.Ryan's also said yes to the Lac Glacei for part of Lemuria deal, but the more I think about it, the more I enjoy the part of giving up Lac Glacei to placate the MCS. The GC would gnash their teeth, it was our original plan anyway (we gave it up and then the Treesians tried to steal it from us; this time we could use wording that makes sure they couldn't) and it would earn us points with the cartographers that might make things better for us in the future (big map re-arrangement a-comin, according to rumor). Again, it's the Kaiser's decision, but I do suggest one of those two options.[Edit: Ryan, the Kaiser and I, have a much better idea for Lac Glacei, which I will post when I have much more time.] Edité(e)(s) par: Scott of Hyperborea  à: 11/30/05 18:06

[UEC]

REarranging.. NO.. NOOONONONONON. We can't let that happen... Gods.. the MCS is not what it used to be Scott... not at all. We should retake it... They keep trying to map rearranging crap. We shouldn't let it be... as it's violates the concept of the MCS... (nations get spread out.. we are an empire... even more true) E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[UEC]

"(big map re-arrangement a-comin, according to rumor)"Once again.... NO!... We need to oppose that idea at every turn like we have in the past. it's a horrible and unreasonably stupid idea... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Actually, I support this particular rearrangement. He wants to slash down on the lands of all the nations on the map in order to create new space for new ones and prevent some (like the GC) from getting bloated. If you saw what he called the "Atkins map" before, it's going to be kind of like that.I would not at all support swapping stuff around or adding new continents, but this seems to be for a good cause and he's promised to be as faithful as possible to current distributions.I reserve the right to not like it when I see it, but until then I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Zirandorthel]

*shakes fist in a crotchety old-guy manner*The MCS started out as sort-of-fair, and it still is, dammit!

[UEC]

There is plenty of land.. if he would keep to agreements... Nations should not be penalized for his mismanagement of the GC and such..There is plenty of land on the map.. *looks at 7.0.3* plenty! the GC is the bloat... it's larger than even Shireroth.. and we made agreements.. NO.. This is stupid. I will not support it at all. It was bad enoug he added continents.. that angered many.. so why not even a year later... does he say we need more land.. when we don't.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[AngelGuardian93]

I wont support a map rearangement either. That's dumb. There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[UEC]

I've asked bill to you that program on the map (removing the legend and compass) and give me the pertent of free land.The GC needs to declare if it is one nation or several. And the MCS needs to uphold it's policies on inactivity of nations if they are seperate nations....That is the solution. We have land that is stuck in inactive hands... the GC is a violation of so many agreements/policies. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

You make a good point about free land and about the inability of the GC to determine nationhood. I don't know if I was supposed to tell you that Ryan is planning this, so don't talk to him now, but when he does, I suggest you mention that to him.

[UEC]

Total Land mass: 1939794 100%Free land mass: 455232 23.47GC land mass: 363776 18.75RS land mass: 256525 13.22Rounded to the nearest hudreth of a percent.We have almost 25% of the map still free...(total useable land mass) E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[UEC]

why don't you.... so we don't have to deal with others .. and their ...bright... ideas.... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Because I already told him I supported it, and it'd be suspicious if I suddenly changed my mind.But now that I think of it, you're the Head Cartographer (or whatever your position is) and have every right to know, so go ahead and talk with Ryan.

[UEC]

What's his SN these days? E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.