The Dinarchy of Antica...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

...is interested in joining us. Currently they are Delphi Augustus, Chuck, and MeanBean. This is a Good Thing, and the culmination of years of good relations between us.I don't exactly know what annexing another country would entail under the new feudal system. My guess is that you'd just decree them annexed, make their land into X new counties, where X is the number of active citizens, and give the counties to them. The land might present a little bit of a problem, as it's currently disputed with the Republic of Antica, and as the MCS doesn't really like us gaining new territory, but we can probably compromise a little.If you approve of this, I'll draw up a treaty. Edité(e)(s) par: Scott of Hyperborea  à: 11/29/05 10:15

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

I'm pleased.Write me a treaty.

[AngelGuardian93]

I am pleased at another aquisition of land, but troubled that they still haven't patched up that fence between them. There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[Delphi]

We were in a process of secret negotiations, led by Robert Davis, or should I say not-so-secret, because Steven went and told everyone over there. Anyway, there's no point in mediation with them at this point, Antica cannot stand on its own two feet (or six feet, technically) without some help. It's a matter we'll deal with in better days.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Delphi, what do you think of this treaty?Quote:TREATY OF AQUILARIAARTICLE ONE: The Dinarchy of Antica cedes sovereignty to the Imperial Republic of Shireroth. All Antican citizens are immediately naturalized as citizens of Shireroth.ARTICLE TWO: The Antican-owned areas marked on the Micronational Cartography Society map as Skiron, Mesoun, Kaikias, and Platea pass into Shirerithian control as Counties. The Antican-owned area marked as Phedodah is ceded to the Republic of Antica as a gesture of good-will.ARTICLE THREE: The Kaiser of Shireroth grants feudal rights to three of the four counties thereby created to the three citizens of the Dinarchy of Antica according to their wishes and preferences. The fourth will be given to an individual approved by the Anticans at a later date.SUB-ARTICLE A: "An individual approved by the Anticans" counts as any person who Delphi Augustus, Dinarch of Antica at the time of the signing of this treaty, accepts. The Kaiser may not give this County to an individual without the Dinarch's approval, or else this treaty is void.ARTICLE FOUR: The Kaiser of Shireroth supports in principle the creation of an Antican political unit within Shireroth, either at the Barony or the Duchy level and according to standard Shirerithian feudal law. The Kaiser also agrees to do his best within reasonable limits to allow Antica to fulfill the legal qualifications for full Duchy-hood as quickly as possible.SUB-ARTICLE A: If the counties of Antica at some future point decide they do not wish to be associated with one another, and wish to remain part of Shireroth, they have the right to form other feudal alliances with native Shirerithian counties in accordance with normal Shirerithian feudal law.ARTICLE FIVE: If at any point in the future, any Antican wishes to become independent from Shireroth, a referendum will be held. If a simple majority of Anticans vote in favor of independence, then Shireroth will relinquish control of the four counties of Antica.SUB-ARTICLE A: Shireroth will take no side in any questions of what the future Antican government will be if this occurs.SUB-ARTICLE B: For purposes of this referendum, an Antican is defined as the Count of any of the four counties being added to Shireroth with this treaty. Therefore, there will be either three or four Anticans, depending on the results of Article Three. Any native Shirerithian counties that choose to become part of an Antican Duchy or Barony will not have permission to call a referendum for secession or to secede if such a referendum passes.ARTICLE SIX: Shireroth acknowledges that this treaty does not give it sole rights to the name "Antica", any power over the entity called "the Republic of Antica", or control of the island of Nafticon. It does however maintain an equal claim to the Antican legacy based on the history and primacy of the Dinarchy. Edité(e)(s) par: Scott of Hyperborea  à: 11/29/05 23:07

[Delphi]

Quite well done, and as I'm sure you could have anticipated, my only potential problem is ceding land to the Republic out of "good will". I'd rather see it go back to the MCS rather than giving it to them; I wasn't aware the purpose of this treaty was to force us to reconcile some of our differences. I don't think I would hold things up on that one point, but I'm stating here and now that I don't think it's appropriate in this treaty, and that it really has nothing to do with the matters at hand.Everything else, however, is 100% acceptable. And Scott, the personal arrangements in terms of a nifty job I covet, such details are not mentioned here simply because they're not germane to a treaty, rather than their nonexistence, correct? Edité(e)(s) par: Delphi Augustus à: 11/29/05 20:05

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Correct on the last point.As for the land-giving-away, I didn't include that out of any high-minded ideals of reconciliation, but out of a practical desire to actually get this through. There are two ways this could go really bad - one, the MCS says Shireroth is too big and refuses to give us Antican land, and two, the Republic finally makes up its mind and decides to claim some or all of that land itself. If we're going to try some sneaky plan that ends up with the Republic joining Shireroth, which I certainly think would be as good a way to spend time as any, not having any big disputes with the Republic that make them hate us would be a very good start. Letting them have that bit of land might be the compromise that prevents them from claiming other stuff. It's true that I should probably check rather than guessing - do you think I should talk to Steven or some other Republican about the issue, and if so do I have your permission to reveal what's going on here to them?As for the MCS, that's another big problem. Any dispute between Shireroth and the Republic is probably going to be decided in the Republic's favor, just because right now they have only a really tiny island whereas we have...well...yeah. If we can at least show we're making a good faith effort to make them a reasonably sized if not big country, Ryan might at least hesitate for a second before going into a violent fit of objection.Again, it might be that we don't have to give Phedodah away at all. With your permission, I'll talk to Ryan about it and see what he has to say.

[AngelGuardian93]

It's not fair at all that Antica should lose their land just because their joining a large country. If Ryan refuses tell him to screw himself.*ahem* There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[Delphi]

I'd prefer you not talk to anyone at the Republic about this, but mentioning it to Ryan for the express purpose of figuring out what we're going to be allowed to do would be fine, so long as he understands this is meant to be kept under wraps until we make it public.

[UEC]

Do to some wording, this will HAVE to be decreed. It cannot pass through the Landsraad.We may wanna specify that those defined as "antican" for purpouses of cessetion consist of those that come in now. If they all leave micronations.. and some ...ambitious individuals read this treaty.. they could abuse it... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

The plan is to Decree it, so that's not an issue.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Erik: Article 5, Sub-Article B.Delphi: Will talk to Ryan ASAP

[UEC]

I meant a native shirerithian... taking a Antican County. Say.. if they all leave micronations.. we have 4 Antican Counties.. and no anticans... I'm talking about people.. not the counties... Native Counts, not counties.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Zirandorthel]

"Any native Shirerithian counties that choose to become part of an Antican Duchy or Barony will not have permission to call a referendum for secession or to secede if such a referendum passes."La.

[UEC]

counties are land.. counts are people..counts move to NATIVE antican COUNTIES.. and call for a referendum. the treaty allows for it.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Okay, I've responded to Erik and Delphi's criticisms and got two final versions of the treaty. The "land-grab" version takes all of the former Dinarchy. The "friendly" version gives a little bit of it to the Republic to placate them. I recommend the friendly version just because I have plots that involve a friendly Republic, but the final choice is Delphi's. Fax, once Delphi makes his choice I think you can go ahead and get this decreed.Land-grab version:Quote:TREATY OF AQUILARIAARTICLE ONE: The Dinarchy of Antica cedes sovereignty to the Imperial Republic of Shireroth. All Antican citizens are immediately naturalized as citizens of Shireroth.ARTICLE TWO: The Antican provinces marked on the Micronational Cartography Society map as Skiron, Mesoun, Kaikias, Phedodah, and Platea pass into Shirerithian control as Counties.ARTICLE THREE: The Kaiser of Shireroth grants feudal rights to three of the five counties thereby created to the three citizens of the Dinarchy of Antica according to their wishes and preferences. The fourth and fifth will be given to individuals approved by the Anticans at a later date.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SUB-ARTICLE A: "Individuals approved by the Anticans" are any people who Delphi Augustus, Dinarch of Antica at the time of the signing of this treaty, accepts. The Kaiser may not give the counties to individuals without the Dinarch's approval, or else this treaty is void.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SUB-ARTICLE B: The Kaiser may not remove counts from native Antican counties, except in cases of treason, without the consent of Delphi Augustus, or, should Delphi Augustus leave Shireroth, his successor as Count of Aquilaria. Such an action on the part of the Kaiser would void this treaty.ARTICLE FOUR: The Kaiser of Shireroth supports in principle the creation of an Antican political unit within Shireroth, either at the Barony or the Duchy level and according to standard Shirerithian feudal law. The Kaiser also agrees to do his best within reasonable limits to allow Antica to fulfill the legal qualifications for full Duchy-hood as quickly as possible.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SUB-ARTICLE A: If the counties of Antica at some future point decide they do not wish to be associated with one another, and wish to remain part of Shireroth, they have the right to form other feudal alliances with native Shirerithian counties in accordance with normal Shirerithian feudal law. This does not remove their status as Antican counties for the purposes of Article Five.ARTICLE FIVE: If at any point in the future, any Antican wishes to become independent from Shireroth, a referendum will be held. If a simple majority of Anticans vote in favor of independence, then Shireroth will relinquish control of the territory gained by this treaty.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SUB-ARTICLE A: Shireroth will take no side in any questions of what the future Antican government will be if this occurs.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SUB-ARTICLE B: For purposes of this referendum, an Antican is defined as any count of any of the counties granted to Shireroth in this treaty who was a citizen of the Dinarchy of Antica at some point before this treaty was signed.ARTICLE SIX: Shireroth acknowledges that this treaty does not give it sole rights to the name "Antica", any power over the entity called "the Republic of Antica", or control of the island of Nafticon. It does however maintain an equal claim to the Antican legacy based on the history and primacy of the Dinarchy.ARTICLE SEVEN: Should all Anticans, as defined in Article Five, Sub-Article B, leave Shireroth without having chosen to exercise their right to secede as listed in Article Five, Antican territory will become fully Shirerithian, and all restrictions placed upon the Kaiser in this treaty will be void. Should there be an irreconcileable conflict between the Antican counties and the Kaiser of Shireroth that does not or cannot result in Antican secession, the matter will be referred to a neutral arbiter, preferably UAI if they still exist, and their decisions will override the text of this treaty.Friendly version:Quote:TREATY OF AQUILARIAARTICLE ONE: The Dinarchy of Antica cedes sovereignty to the Imperial Republic of Shireroth. All Antican citizens are immediately naturalized as citizens of Shireroth.ARTICLE TWO: The Antican-owned areas marked on the Micronational Cartography Society map as Skiron, Mesoun, Kaikias, and Platea pass into Shirerithian control as Counties. The Antican-owned area marked as Phedodah is ceded to the Republic of Antica as a gesture of good-will.ARTICLE THREE: The Kaiser of Shireroth grants feudal rights to three of the four counties thereby created to the three citizens of the Dinarchy of Antica according to their wishes and preferences. The fourth will be given to an individual approved by the Anticans at a later date.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SUB-ARTICLE A: "An individual approved by the Anticans" counts as any person who Delphi Augustus, Dinarch of Antica at the time of the signing of this treaty, accepts. The Kaiser may not give this County to an individual without the Dinarch's approval, or else this treaty is void.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SUB-ARTICLE B: The Kaiser may not remove counts from native Antican counties, except in cases of treason, without the consent of Delphi Augustus, or, should Delphi Augustus leave Shireroth, his successor as Count of Aquilaria. Such an action on the part of the Kaiser would void this treaty.ARTICLE FOUR: The Kaiser of Shireroth supports in principle the creation of an Antican political unit within Shireroth, either at the Barony or the Duchy level and according to standard Shirerithian feudal law. The Kaiser also agrees to do his best within reasonable limits to allow Antica to fulfill the legal qualifications for full Duchy-hood as quickly as possible.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SUB-ARTICLE A: If the counties of Antica at some future point decide they do not wish to be associated with one another, and wish to remain part of Shireroth, they have the right to form other feudal alliances with native Shirerithian counties in accordance with normal Shirerithian feudal law. This does not remove their status as Antican counties for the purposes of Article Five.ARTICLE FIVE: If at any point in the future, any Antican wishes to become independent from Shireroth, a referendum will be held. If a simple majority of Anticans vote in favor of independence, then Shireroth will relinquish control of the territory gained by this treaty.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SUB-ARTICLE A: Shireroth will take no side in any questions of what the future Antican government will be if this occurs.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp SUB-ARTICLE B: For purposes of this referendum, an Antican is defined as any count of any of the counties granted to Shireroth in this treaty who was a citizen of the Dinarchy of Antica at some point before this treaty was signed.ARTICLE SIX: Shireroth acknowledges that this treaty does not give it sole rights to the name "Antica", any power over the entity called "the Republic of Antica", or control of the island of Nafticon. It does however maintain an equal claim to the Antican legacy based on the history and primacy of the Dinarchy.ARTICLE SEVEN: Should all Anticans, as defined in Article Five, Sub-Article B, leave Shireroth without having chosen to exercise their right to secede as listed in Article Five, Antican territory will become fully Shirerithian, and all restrictions placed upon the Kaiser in this treaty will be void. Should there be an irreconcileable conflict between the Antican counties and the Kaiser of Shireroth that does not or cannot result in Antican secession, the matter will be referred to a neutral arbiter, preferably UAI if they still exist, and their decisions will override the text of this treaty.

[UEC]

"at some point before this treaty was signed."TO"when this treaty was signed" E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I want to keep it the way it is because the Dinarchy had a large exodus, so that there are a lot of former Anticans who are no longer around. We have two extra Antican counties, so I figure if we're lucky the Anticans can recruit a couple of the old Anticans to Shireroth, in which case they will be as Antican as anyone else and have a stake in this issue.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Okay, final Delphi-approved version for decreeing whenever it pleases the Kaiser:Quote:TREATY OF AQUILARIAARTICLE ONE: The Dinarchy of Antica cedes sovereignty to the Imperial Republic of Shireroth. All Antican citizens are immediately naturalized as citizens of Shireroth.ARTICLE TWO: The Antican-owned areas marked on the Micronational Cartography Society map as Skiron, Mesoun, Phedodah, and Platea pass into Shirerithian control as Counties. The Antican-owned area marked as Kaikias is ceded to the Republic of Antica as a gesture of good-will.ARTICLE THREE: The Kaiser of Shireroth grants feudal rights to three of the four counties thereby created to the three citizens of the Dinarchy of Antica according to their wishes and preferences. The fourth will be given to an individual approved by the Anticans at a later date. SUB-ARTICLE A: "An individual approved by the Anticans" counts as any person who Delphi Augustus, Dinarch of Antica at the time of the signing of this treaty, accepts. The Kaiser may not give this County to an individual without the Dinarch's approval, or else this treaty is void. SUB-ARTICLE B: The Kaiser may not remove counts from native Antican counties, except in cases of treason, without the consent of Delphi Augustus, or, should Delphi Augustus leave Shireroth, his successor as Count of Aquilaria. Such an action on the part of the Kaiser would void this treaty.ARTICLE FOUR: The Kaiser of Shireroth supports in principle the creation of an Antican political unit within Shireroth, either at the Barony or the Duchy level and according to standard Shirerithian feudal law. The Kaiser also agrees to do his best within reasonable limits to allow Antica to fulfill the legal qualifications for full Duchy-hood as quickly as possible. SUB-ARTICLE A: If the counties of Antica at some future point decide they do not wish to be associated with one another, and wish to remain part of Shireroth, they have the right to form other feudal alliances with native Shirerithian counties in accordance with normal Shirerithian feudal law. This does not remove their status as Antican counties for the purposes of Article Five.ARTICLE FIVE: If at any point in the future, any Antican wishes to become independent from Shireroth, a referendum will be held. If a simple majority of Anticans vote in favor of independence, then Shireroth will relinquish control of the territory gained by this treaty. SUB-ARTICLE A: Shireroth will take no side in any questions of what the future Antican government will be if this occurs. SUB-ARTICLE B: For purposes of this referendum, an Antican is defined as any count of any of the counties granted to Shireroth in this treaty who was a citizen of the Dinarchy of Antica at some point before this treaty was signed.ARTICLE SIX: Shireroth acknowledges that this treaty does not give it sole rights to the name "Antica", any power over the entity called "the Republic of Antica", or control of the island of Nafticon. It does however maintain an equal claim to the Antican legacy based on the history and primacy of the Dinarchy.ARTICLE SEVEN: Should all Anticans, as defined in Article Five, Sub-Article B, leave Shireroth without having chosen to exercise their right to secede as listed in Article Five, Antican territory will become fully Shirerithian, and all restrictions placed upon the Kaiser in this treaty will be void. Should there be an irreconcileable conflict between the Antican counties and the Kaiser of Shireroth that does not or cannot result in Antican secession, the matter will be referred to a neutral arbiter, preferably UAI if they still exist, and their decisions will override the text of this treaty.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Requesting declassification per Declassification act of 3742.