The Lothloria Proposition of ASC 2359

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:46 pm

WHEREAS:

The Imperial Republic of Shireroth is in bad standing with the Micronational Cartography Society due to its huge landmass,

The land of Lothloria is unused and out of the way from the rest of Shireroth,

Cognito has a large land mass and is also unused,

THEREFORE, in the interests of territorial continuity:

Shireroth shall give up the land that is currently labeled as "Lothloria" on the MCS map, but not the rights to Lothloria itself,

Lothloria shall be placed in Cognito as drawn by the Imperial Cartographer.

A rough draft, of course. Three day debate period.

Kaiseress Semisa I · Post by **Kaiseress Semisa I** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:47 pm

This has my approval. Go ahead and tear it apart, guys.

Post by **Shyriath** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:14 pm

Aside from the traditional "we don't give up land" argument, one ting that ought to be taken into consideration is the cultural heritage involved. Obviously, Lothlaria has some stuff about it that we want to see preserved (hence the move to Cognito). But what of Cognito itself? I don't know a whole lot about its history. Does it have any cultural baggage that this arrangement could endanger? If so, is it something that anyone in Shireroth is interested in preserving?

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:22 pm

That's the thing. Cognito had been nothing, from what I remember, other than land baggage to "Lac Glacei and Cognito". Lac Glacei had been developed, but not Cognito. It was just the baggage we got from the Imperium in Tymaria. As well, the territory is huge, with very little city density.

Lothloria's cultural heritage does not depend on where its land is located - unlike, say, Hyperborea. It is also out the way from the rest of our territory.

AngelGuardian93 · Post by **AngelGuardian93** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:22 pm

I don't especially like this proposal, but I wont stand in it's way.

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:42 pm

One more thing. It will make us look good diplomaticly. I'm sure some of you have heard of our huge accusations of being Imperialist - giving up land like this will surely help our reputation.

AngelGuardian93 · Post by **AngelGuardian93** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:18 am

Well, that's why I don't have a problem with it, I suppose.

Hypatia Agnesi · Post by **Hypatia Agnesi** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:12 pm

I don't have any stringent objections to this either, aside from the requisite "we don't give up land!" argument.

H4773r 3lfs0n · Post by **H4773r 3lfs0n** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:28 pm

My feelings are also that we should not give up land. this based on the idea that that is land rightfully owned by Shireroth and therefore ours to do with as we damn well please. In the real worl obscure lan are held by nations all over the bloody place and politically other nations either potition to the owning nation or take the land by force when they have a problem.

Now, if the case is some other power has a claim to it or another would like to annex it they can go through us through established channels. to give up land just because the maps dont look pretty is silly to me, not imperialist.

However, if the rest say, give up the "land" and not the country, I have no partiallity towards it, very well, but those are my two cents AGAINST giving up the land.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:18 pm

Echoing what others have said - while there is nothing technically wrong, I think it goes against principle. Is there an intrinsinc need for us to approve such a resolution? Yes, it is necessary to compromise when there is a conflict or need to, but why do it preemptively?

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:15 am

Simply this - why not? The land is useless. It would make us better internationally. It will give detail to a large area of our nation which has very little detail already. It doesn't harm us, and can only help us. Also, I would like to point out that despite the generalization, Shireroth does give up land - we have given up Lac Glacei land in the past, and now it is only a Protectorite. We have given up a small section of Cognito as well. We have also given up Mondesia. We have given up land in the past, and I feel that this move would be extremely healthy for the MCS map - it surely would be better than the MCS doing the move unilaterally.

The offical debate period is over. Voting period starts (You can still talk of course - it's more proper to say that voting starts)

Antya votes YEA. (4)

AngelGuardian93 · Post by **AngelGuardian93** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:53 am

This is basicly so when people shove their, 'wer're imperialist' crap in our face we can point to this and tell them to stick it.

HOLY votes aye (4).

H4773r 3lfs0n · Post by **H4773r 3lfs0n** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:07 pm

"why not?" the land is not useless, unless of course you count those other fifty odd counties of the shireland useless. as i see it whether it has roots or is a blank slate that is a great resource in both instances.
As one who is new to micronationalism i would be thrilled to have a blank canvas on which to create a new and beautifully unique area, ESPECIALLY around lands that have been established and cultivated for eons (as far as micronationalism goes). prime land for newbs or vets who want something fresh whereas most of the land on this "planet" has been renovated eighty times.

and as far as being better internationally, BAH! sure presents are great to smooth things out in times of distress but i see it as a much more noble way to lead by example and BE better than to give up land, maybe im the only one who sees the reason as to make the MCS map prettier, but thats how it sounds to me.

and how would they do it unilaterally? but this should be my last big post about the situation, and I guess I AM imperialist

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:05 pm

You're talking about an area (Lothloria) that is roughly 1394 miles in length by 787 miles wide. Now you can't tell me you need ALL that land for a county.

People fail to utilise the land they are given to its utmost maximum capacity. More often than not they fail to realise the sheer size of the lands they control.

For the stature and role of both Lothloria and Cognito, the two can be combined into the lands presently in Cognito (heh... pun...) with PLENTY of room to spare.

Furthermore, in combining the two, the proverbial "blank canvas" to work with still exists. If such a blank canvas exists to begin with, since my proposal to do something with Akerbjorn (pre-Lothloria) was shot down for "tampering with the gods of time"....

Hence I support this motion 150%.

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:37 am

Sorry Ryan, you are not a noble, (Lac Glacei doesn't count as it is a Protectorite) so you may not post here.

Post by **Shyriath** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:21 pm

Naudia'Diva votes a sober AYE (10), as long as the Duke-who-shall-return permits me to continue to wield votes in his stead.

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:24 pm

This votes PASSES 18-0-0.

The Lothloria Proposition of ASC 2359

The Lothloria Proposition of ASC 2359

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