Vote: Duchy of Hyperborea

[Kaiser Mors III]

"the Prætor may choose to extend the voting period an additional three days if and only if he or she believes that nobles with an active interest in it have not gotten a chance to vote,"Stop interpretting the laws and telling the Prætor what to do... Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Phoenix the Risen]

since when am I telling the Prætor what to do? I am simply stating that a majority cannot be attained (not that that really even means anything) and urging the Prætor to give Mari a chance. I am not -telling- him to do anything.As for interpereting the laws... that goes back to my far earlier point that laws should be written so they don't -have- to be interpereted... but what we have now has worked fine so far, and that argument is for another day... Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess of Kildare - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - COME BACK, STEVE!!! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Wait...i thought that we counted the majourity of Aye/Nay votes and ignored the abstainations.... -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas Give me your child, and by the age of five, I can make him a priest or a thief or a scholar.

[Kaiser Mors III]

We do... An abstaining vote just means. "I showed up, but will niether support nor not support this, thus.. for all purposes, I'm NOT voting..hehehe"... So DON"T count abstains as Nays.. or it'll fuck us all over... Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Zirandorthel]

It's four days?? That "if the week is over" thing must have misled me, it really shouldn't be in there.Joseph has every right to tell me what to do. He's a noble, and I'm a peasant, after all. It doesn't prohibit me wreaking horrible revenge on him for it, though..Although this vote really should be closed by now, I feel it would be a bit hypocritical and frankly suspect of myself, a Hyperborean Prætor who has been a bit inactive lately, to not give a couple more days to the Duchess to vote, since it is] Christmas. Give her some time to show up, perhaps put something in the announcements like "Duchess Mari, please vote on whether you remain so" so that she notices.Therefore, this vote is extended for another two days, and will be extended indefinitely until Duchess Mari shows up. I suppose I'm able to do this? Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

[Phoenix the Risen]

nothing says you can't Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess of Kildare - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - COME BACK, STEVE!!! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)

[Gryphon Avocatio]

I will point out the Lady Greenwood has posted on the board several times since this bill went to the floor. It is not as though she has not had the opportunity to vote.If we want this vote to hinge on her activity, we must look at her activity in shireroth as a whole. She's never been terribly active. Now this leads me to two conclusions, either we should wait for her to show up because that's just how she works, or we should admit that she really doesn't care. Personally, I have noticed her to be very apathetic towards Shireroth, especially after Erik suggested that he was going to make Hyperborea a duchy and demote Elwynn to a Barony thereunder. As I said before, she has had plenty of opportunity to vote. I believe she has her priorities elsewhere, not that that is necesarilly a bad thing, but we should be looking out for the best interest of the Nation, not for the best interest of a relatively inactive Noble.I would highly recommend only extending the vote three days for this reason. We're merely prolonging something that's already gone on long enough.And Mari: The main issue really has little to do with you. I don't believe that there are a great number of people in this nation that want to see you leave. However, your lack of voice on the issue leaves us to wonder how you feel about Shireroth. -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas Give me your child, and by the age of five, I can make him a priest or a thief or a scholar.

[Kaiser Mors III]

I agree with Nick. Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Zirandorthel]

Okay then, the vote is extended until the day after St. Stephen's Day (December 27th) as this is when the Kaiser decreed it so (I am taking "I agree with Nick" as a firm and unbending order, by the way). Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

[Gryphon Avocatio]

well, appairently her internet was down...for this reason, i kinda feel like we should extend it, but I also feel that we should get this over with...but i belive this is up to you, eoin, or erik... -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas Give me your child, and by the age of five, I can make him a priest or a thief or a scholar.

[Kaiser Mors III]

Just cause I agree doens't make it an order..hehehe...*sigh*... Internet down.. meh.... Why can't these things be simpler.. I put it to the Landsraad to MAKE it simpler... But NOOOOOOOOO.... her net had to go down... blah blah moo...Oh well... It's not my call what is done with this vote now... I will not directly interfer with the Landsraad's preceedings... Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Zirandorthel]

Aye&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 14&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Nay&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 14&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Abstain&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 10A less complex version of the Dutchess' count. I was just seeing whether Mari's vote would make any difference if in fact she did vote, and the answer is: yes.Well, for one thing, this Act has raised an issue that needs to be dealt with for once and for all. The Landsraad is obviously divided over this issue, and unless we ask the Abstainees to change their vote, I can't see how we can resolve this without waiting for Mari to reappear, and we can guess how she'd vote, can't we?Also, this raises a number of interesting questions about Landsraad procedure, including a contradiction in the LawBook, which I suppose will have to be dealt with, won't they?Anyway, I'll ask for a vote now, on the two options I see we have. We can WAIT or we can ASK THE KAISER TO MAKE OUR DECISIONS FOR US. Would the honoured members of the Landsraad please cast their votes? Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

[Kaiser Mors III]

I guess this means the vote is over.. with no disicion having been made? Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Phoenix the Risen]

a couple things to point out here...first, your count adds up to 38 votes. having 6 duchies, we should theoretically have a maximum of 36 votes. 4 of those votes (Elwynn) were never cast, so we should only have 32 votes... but with all the vote-changing and stuff I forgive the error... I had trouble counting as well (which is why I finally gave up and arranged them by subdivision)my original count added up to y/n/a = 14/14/8second, however is that, if I am not mistaken, I believe you extended the vote indefinitely. After my initial count, Eriana Moon of Lunaris changed her vote of Abstain to a vote of YEA, thus pushing the bill into the positive realm: 16/14/6third, however again... is that you are correct. Mari Greenwood's vote may have made a difference. However, she has had the chance to vote already, as she did post in general discussion a day or so ago to announce her unplanned LOA, and did not appoint an emissary at the time. I don't think it would be procedurally effective to wait -again- for Elwynn, as we have given her more than enough chance to vote. (gawd... I feel like I'm part of the Bush campaign talking about Florida - I guess now I see where they were coming from...)fourth, the vote, being 16/14/6, while technically in the positive arena, is still the closest vote I have seen since joining the nation nearly two years ago. I do not see the Landsraad making a definite decision on this, therefore I sayASK THE KAISER TO MAKE OUR DECISIONS FOR US (Kildare - 6)((For full transcript of this post in terms of the USA 2000 presidential election, send in five proofs of purchase to PO box ......) or just talk to me on one of my contacts listed on the census) Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess of Kildare - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - COME BACK, STEVE!!! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)

[Zirandorthel]

You see, the boy/girl is quick n' clever, which is why zie should be hung from zir ankles until zie says sorry for being so insolent and constantly pointing out the Prætor's mistakes. Well, the problem with this vote, whether it is unfair to decide or not, is that neither Aye nor Nay has a majority, because Abstain contains more than the difference between them. I'll be right back, just consulting the LawBook.. Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

[Zirandorthel]

Quote:a. A bill will be on the voting floor for the space of four days, or until a majority is obtained. At any time before the week is up, the Prætor may choose to extend the voting period an additional three days if and only if he or she believes that nobles with an active interest in it have not gotten a chance to vote, and that these nobles could significantly impact the outcome. In all other cases, the Prætor should declare the vote passed or failed, close, and archive it after the four days are up. If the Prætor fails to do so, the vote is nevertheless considered unofficially passed.Now, I've read that through a good few times, and despite the fact that it points out several regular derelictions in my duties as Prætor, it doesn't actually say what happens when the three days doesn't make a difference to the outcome of the vote. I suppose we could go back in time, and treat the first seven days of voting as the "official" votes cast in reference to this issue? Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

[Gryphon Avocatio]

hmm...i feel a need to rant about the voting system...if you will excuse me, i will go to another thread now... -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas Give me your child, and by the age of five, I can make him a priest or a thief or a scholar.

[Kaiser Mors III]

I think this is a precedural issue... not a voting system issue.As far as I see. 16-14.. it passes. And the Landsraad has spoken. So, if it comes to me, That is going to be my decision... Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Zirandorthel]

Alright then, does this change the LawBook in any way? Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

[Phoenix the Risen]

nope, just means we get to rearrange the fora... which means bossing around MiniINtFO Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess of Kildare - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - COME BACK, STEVE!!! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)

[Zirandorthel]

Grand, so I'll close this thread and bump it into Passed Bills.. Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!