Title Purchasing Act 3960

[Erik Mortis]

A new section shall be Added to LB: III. Nobles and be numbered as E, with all following sections renumbered.

E. Purchased Titles.
1. Purchasing Titles
a. Non-Hereditary Titles of Civitas Rank may be purchased from the crown for a cost of 300€.
b. Non-Hereditary Titles of Equestrian Rank may be purchased from the crown for a cost of 600€
c. All funds from purchased titles shall be paid to the Imperial Treasury.
d. A purchased title has all the privileges, rights and responsibilities of its non-purchased counterpart.

2. Renewal
a. Purchased Titles shall remain granted for 3 months from the date of purchase.
b. After 3 months a title that has been purchased may be renewed for another 3 months, at half the original cost.

3. Revocation
a. If a renewal fee is not paid the associated Purchased Title is automatically revoked.
b. While granted, a purchased title is protected from revocation, baring a conviction by the Judex for crimes against the empire.

First draft. Opinions?

[Erik Mortis]

I'm thinking the cost and renewal costs are kinda steep. Even I, with my hoard, couldn't afford such a title for long.


(I have now reduced the costs from 1000, 700)

[Andreas the Wise]

Are the purchases meant to be cumulative? Like, you have to pay 700 to get Civitas and a further 500 to get Equestrian? Surely Equestrian is more important, since it grants a voice in the Landsraad; and so should cost more.

(of course, if we do end up linking land and titles into the recwar system, civitas will become more valuable).

[Erik Mortis]

That was a mistake. Sorry. I swapped them.

[Andreas the Wise]

Swapping them is good. I still repeat the question on cumulativity, however.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

You pay 700 for Thane and 500 for Jarl, excluding renewal fees. If you buy Thane, you don't get Jarl too. Both would cost 1200 excluding renewals. I think that 700/500 is a bit low.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Or at least 700 for a Landsraad voice.

[Andreas the Wise]

If you don't need to buy Jarl to get Thane, Jarl should be lower and possibly Thane higher. Voice in the Landsraad is big. 3 months of countship is not.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Yep. I think that perhaps 1000 for a voice in the Landsraad is appropriate, or something. Jarl could be a great deal lower.

[Andreas the Wise]

300 for Jarl, 1000 for Thane?

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Is 500 too high for a Jarldom? The title doesn't come with much privilege.

[Andreas the Wise]

Would you pay 500 for a Jarldom? I know I wouldn't.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

I wouldn't, but I have another title at the moment.

300 sounds like a good level, and 1000 for Thane.

[Erik Mortis]

How many people can afford 500€ every 3 months for Thane?

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Not very many I hope. If they can't afford that, they don't deserve to buy a voice in the Landsraad.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Apparently this has been met with much drama and exaggeration from various people around the realm. Perhaps you should take a poll and ask each and every person in this non-democracy what the correct level should be, since people seem to not want to live in this non-democracy when we don't have democracy.

[Erik Mortis]

Unless they are willing to come forth openly and speak their minds, I have no interest in what they have to say in private. Not trying to be a dick, but if they have something to say, take it before the Front Gate, or have an associated Noble who CAN speak here bring it up for you.

I will push forward with the bill as presented. I feel the rates are reasonable at 700/500 with renewal every 3 months at 350/250. I might be persuaded to expand the time frame to 4 month or reduce the costs by as much as 100 each. But Not unless someone specifically comes forth and doesn't just make drama at the Kaiser behind closed doors.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

I think 500 might be a bit high for a Jarldom since the title doesn't come with any specific privileges. We should perhaps look into that.

[Erik Mortis]

I wouldn't mind giving them more privileges, but what?

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

The right to complain about the Kaiser? Oh wait, not really a privilege.

The right to hold more than one county?

I don't really know.

On a related note, perhaps Houses should be allowed to buy/rent counties as well? Could be a steady source of revenue for the ImpGov.

[Erik Mortis]

That would not be something I would be opposed to.

But I like the idea of counts being allowed multiple counties personally...

[Andreas the Wise]

I stand by the 1000/300 costings, and my voice should hopefully count as I'm raising it publicly in the Landsraad and I'm one of those noble dudes.

[Erik Mortis]

So... Raise the cost for Thane.. but drop the cost on Jarl?

[Andreas the Wise]

Yes, because Thane has actual power and Jarl is a pretty title, with possibly some as of yet unspecified military significance but nothing more.

[Erik Mortis]

How bout 800/400? (from 700/500).

[Andreas the Wise]

You don't think people should pay 1000 for the Landsraad?

[Erik Mortis]

It seems steep to me. Just for a voice. And then having to pay 500€ every 3 months.

We'll have killed the demand by making it to costly. My goal would be for 1-3 people to have purchased titles. At 1000, I don't see that happening. We want money, but if the fee is so steep none can pay, we have no market.

[Andreas the Wise]

Ok, when you put it like that, I'll go with 800/400.

[Erik Mortis]

Done.

[Erik Mortis]

If we have no other debate.. Vote?