Procedures Revision Bill 3934

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Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Malliki Tosha »

PROCEDURES REVISION BILL

Be it enacted by the Landsraad of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth;

1. That the Procedures of the Landsraad be amended as follows:

A. Members of the Landsraad
1. Membership in the Landsraad is determined in accordance with the Imperial Charter and includes only those with a title of Equestrian rank and higher.

B. Votes
1. Each Noble of the Patrician Rank, known as a Patrician, is allocated one vote10 votes that they may cast, or assign to subordinate nobles within their own house.
2. A Patrician must always have the largest single vote amongst himself and his subordinate nobles.
3. A Noble of lesser rank then Patrician may never have more then 5 votes.
4. Votes possessed and cast by a noble must always be integers.
5. A Patrician may assign votes as he sees fit amongst his subordinate nobles, provided the above criteria.
6. Vote allocations may not be changed except by the Patrician, or other duly appointed individual. It is the responsibility of a new Patrician to update their vote allocations.
7. Should a Patrician other than the one who made the original post in the Big Fat Vote Thread wish to change the vote allocations, zie should make a new post and then request the Praetor to archive the old one.


C. Bills
1. The Landsraad passes changes to the LawBook. Each bill is presented in the form of an unambiguous change to the LawBook, and must have a name used by no bill presented before it. Any member of the Landsraad, the Kaiser, and the Praetor, can present a bill for voting.
2. A majority of those citizens present and voting at the Landsraad Front Gate may vote to introduce a bill or resolution in the Landsraad. The Landsraad must then consider the bill or resolution. No Landsraad member may participate in this vote.
a. If a bill is sent to the Landsraad in this manner, the Praetor shall introduce it in the Landsraad with information about how large the majority was that sent it to the Landsraad.
3. The Landsraad can also pass Resolutions, which is a non-binding opinion of the Landsraad.


D. Voting
1. After a bill has been presented to the Landsraad, there is a period of exactly four days (96 hours) during which the members of the Landsraad can then vote on it.
2. Each member, or their emissary, may cast zir complete vote in any unambiguous way to represent a vote of aye or nay.
3. A vote only applies to a bill exactly as it has been presented.
4. At the end of the period, the Praetor counts the votes, announces the result, and if the ayes outnumber the nays, updates the LawBook with the changes.
5. The Landsraad voting shall be public.
6. Once a bill has been officially opened by the Praetor, the votes that are allocated for that particular bill will be those specified at the time of opening in the Big Fat Vote Thread.
7. Changes made to the Big Fat Vote Thread will not be counted towards already active bills.


E. The Praetor
1. The Praetor is appointed in accordance with the Imperial Charter and Lawbook, and has the rights and obligations established therein.

F. Speech
1. Any member of the Landsraad, any duly appointed Emissary, and the Prætor, can freely express their opinion on any bill presented in the Landsraad. All others are barred from speaking in the Landsraad and are directed to speak at the Front Gate.

G. The Deputy Prætor
1. The Deputy Prætor shall act in stead of the Prætor should the Prætor not be available.
2. When acting as Prætor in the manner stated in 1., the Deputy Prætor shall have all powers and duties of the Prætor.
3. In G. 2., "not be available", shall be considered to mean either a stated leave of absence or if the Prætor does not, within 48 hours, fulfill zir obligations to the Landsraad.

H. Emissaries
1. A voting noble may appoint a representative known as an Emissary.
2. An Emissary shall be granted the vote and voice of a noble, to represent that noble within the Landsraad.
3. While a noble has an Emissary appointed and active within the Landsraad, said noble may only speak or vote through that Emissary.
4. A noble may temporarily revoke the status of an appointed Emissary for a single debate, at which point the Emissary must retire from the debate without comment.
5. If an Emissary has been forced to retire from a debate by the Noble they represent, they cannot return to the debate, nor may another Emissary be appointed.
6. A noble's Emissary must reside within the subdivision that the Noble resides within or rules.
7. A noble may only have one Emissary appointed at any given time.
Last edited by Malliki Tosha on Sun May 16, 2010 8:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Malliki Tosha »

Yardis: Aye
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Daniel Farewell »

Kalir casts a vote of nay unless members of the Front Gate can be defined.

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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Malliki Tosha »

I put the definition in. The members of the Front Gate are all Shirerithians except the members of the Landsraad.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Daniel Farewell »

Very well. The House of Kalir removes its casted vote of nay.

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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Andreas the Wise »

So essentially you are removing anybody but Dukes voting; but allowing all non-Duchal citizens to vote in the Front Gate to force a bill into the Landsraad for the Dukes to vote upon?
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Malliki Tosha »

Basically yes. We had a brief period with people other than Dukes voting, but since noble titles are controlled by the Kaiser now, we really don't have any people to transfer votes to. This reform allows a simple system for the Landsraad, and allows everyone else a say in the Landsraad Front Gate.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Andreas the Wise »

I'm not sure that the idea of non-Dukes having a vote has completely run its dash; but it certainly isn't applicable at the moment, so (with a view to further reform if/when the nation becomes more active and meritocratic) I'm willing to give this a go.

For Atterock, I vote AYE.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Kaiser Mors VI »

This also removed the Equestrian priviledge to speak, but not vote, in the Landsraad. While I wholly support the changes in this bill, I think we should retain the Equestrian right to speak but not vote in the Landsraad. Else there is no real difference between Equestrian and Civitis.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Malliki Tosha »

It's a matter of status and rank. I dislike having people as non-voting members, since they then either bitch about not being able to vote or just do nothing.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Kaiser Mors VI »

If they do nothing.. nothing lost. If they bitch about not being able to vote, it gives them something to strive for.

I can tell you this, it was my hope to gain a title of rank Equestrian after my reign was over. But if this goes through as is.. what hope do I have of gaining any say in the Landsraad.

This would remove Ryan from being able to Speak here, wen he's not the ruling Duke Commissioner, and removes all purpose to the use of 3 ranks of noble. I don't approve.

We'd be even closer to what we had before if you remove this one privilege of the Equestrian nobles. We should be creating more difference and distinction between the ranks, not less.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

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Is Ryan an Equestrian noble now?
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Andreas the Wise »

I agree the Equestrian right to speak should not be removed; but I don't see where this bill removes it.

*reads for a fourth time*
Oh wait, it's hidden there in the top corner. In that case, I vote NAY to the bill until Equestrians are given their right to speak still. And Ryan has been an Equestrian since day one of the new system, as far as I can remember.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Malliki Tosha »

I believe there is a majority for the bill as it stands. Therefore I will wait for Daniel to speak on this matter. Again, I fail to see the point of having non-voting members since we can ignore them anyway.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Andreas the Wise »

While we can, yes, ignore them, it provides official recognition and a sense of legitimacy to their views, since they are able to speak in this body. I don't know if you've ever read JS Mill's On Representative Government? In it, he is quite keen to ensure minorities are represented in Parliament - the majority can still outvote them, sure; but he hopes that their voice will have an educating influence on the majority. In the case of Shireroth, allowing Equestrians to speak both provides a difference between Civitas and Equestriann; and allows people to make a comment on a bill in a way that's not easy to make in the Landsraad Front Gate; because they can respond to the discussion within the discussion.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Malliki Tosha »

I don't think that's applicable in this situation. Should we let every minority into the Landsraad then? The truth is that non-voting members almost never speak here, and what is then the purpose of allowing them to speak? The different noble ranks were conceived by the Kaiser, and perhaps he should have thought of how they would be differentiated without looking to the internal matters of the Landsraad for that.

I ask that Duke Kalir clarifies his vote at this point.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Andreas the Wise »

To clarify, then my point was more regarding the ability for educated minorities to help improve the majority - in the case of Shireroth, if there are only three Dukes, we cannot expect to get the right answer for the nation on every issue. By allowing the Equestrians - those who have proven their worth to the nation - to comment in our discussions when they want to, they can point out when we are doing something wrong or could do something better. Just because they don't use the power all the time does not mean it should be taken away from them.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Kaiser Mors VI »

Ryan has spoken in this body on several occasions. If I were to have the rank when my reign ends, I too would make much use of it.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Malliki Tosha »

I yield. The bill has been edited.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Kaiser Mors VI »

I have absolutely no objections, not that I can do anything if I did. I thank you Mike for compromising with us on this matter.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Daniel Farewell »

I'm sorry I was away yesterday, I was ill. But in the current format, Kalir casts a vote of 'yea' to the bill, as amended.

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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

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Thanks Mike. I vote AYE again. :)
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Kaiser Mors VI »

Should I act as Praetor with Corey indisposed?
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Andreas the Wise »

I would be happy for that.
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Re: Procedures Revision Bill 3934

Post by Kaiser Mors VI »

If there are no objections from others, I'll close this tomorrow based on the procedures of the Landsraad.
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