Shireroth

This bill would make the following changes to the Lawbook

LB: III B-F are to be revoked entirely.

A to be changed as follows
From:

A: Requirements and Definitions

1. Citizenship Requirements
a. A Noble of Shireroth must be a citizen of Shireroth.
b. A Noble of Shireroth shall not be a minor as defined by the Ministry of Immigration and Naturalization.

2. Definition
a. The Kaiser, as outlined in the Imperial Charter, is the Supreme Noble of Shireroth and is thus considered a Noble.
b. A Duke is a Noble, below the rank of Kaiser.
c. A Lesser-Noble, without regard for particular title, is a Noble below the rank of Duke..
d. Those without the rank of Lesser-Noble, or higher, are not considered Nobles..

To

A: Requirements and Ranks

1. Citizenship Requirements
a. A Noble of Shireroth must be a citizen of Shireroth.
b. A Noble of Shireroth shall not be a minor as defined by the Ministry of Immigration and Naturalization.

2. Noble Rank
a. There shall exist a tier of Noble Ranks in Shireroth and all individuals who are bestowed a title within these ranks shall be considered a Noble.
b. The Kaiser shall be at the apex of this tier, as the Supreme Noble of Shireroth, as outlined in the Imperial Charter.
c. The rank of Patrician shall exist directly beneath the rank of Kaiser
d. The rank of Equestrian shall exist directly beneath the rank of Patrician
e. The rank of Civitas shall exist directly beneath the rank of Equestrian and shall be the lowest of all noble ranks.

G to be changed as follows:

From:

G. Ruling Nobles and Honourary Nobles.

1. Ruling Nobles.
a. All Dukes and lesser nobles appointed by the procedures listed in sections C and D shall be known as the "Ruling Nobles" of their respective subdivisions.
b. A Ruling Noble may override any decision or action made by any of his Honourary Nobles.
2. Honourary Nobles.
a. The spouse of a Ruling Noble may be granted a title of Nobility of the same level and power over the same realm as the Ruling Noble. Such nobles shall be known as "Honourary Nobles".
b. Honourary Nobles may have all the powers of their Ruling Noble except the Landsraad vote.
c. In the case of a Ruling Noble's abscence, if he has any Honourary Nobles, the primary shall be automatically considered his emissary if no emmissary has been previously established.
d. These clauses may vary due to pre-nuptual agreements.

To

G. Ruling Nobles and Honourary Nobles.

1. Ruling Nobles.
a. Any Noble appointed by the Kaiser, or who inherited their title, shall be known as the "Ruling Noble" of their respective House and associated lands.
b. A Ruling Noble may override any decision or action made by any of his Honourary Nobles.
2. Honourary Nobles.
a. The spouse of a Ruling Noble may be granted a title of Nobility of the same level and power over the same realm as the Ruling Noble. Such nobles shall be known as "Honourary Nobles".
b. Honourary Nobles may have all the powers of their Ruling Noble except the Landsraad vote.
c. In the case of a Ruling Noble's absence, if he has any Honourary Nobles, the primary shall be automatically considered his emissary if no emissary has been previously established.
d. These clauses may vary due to prenuptial agreements.

H Shall be modified as follows

H. Multiple Titles of Nobility.

1. No Shirithian shall hold multiple titles of nobility at or above the rank of Lesser-Noble, except when said titles are in a direct line of precedent within a single Duchy or fief.
2. A Shirithian is allowed to hold multiple titles below the rank of Lesser-Noble even if said titles are not in a direct line of precedent within a single Duchy or fief.

To

H. Multiple Titles of Nobility.

1. No Shirithian shall hold multiple titles of nobility.

The following Shall be added to LB: III
C shall be created

C. Titles
1. Lands
a. Titles may have lands associated with them, held in fief.
b. These lands will pass with the title, to an heir, if the title itself can be inherited.

2. Duke
a. Duke is a title that holds the rank of Patrician and can be passed to a designated heir.

3. Margrave
a. Margrave is a title that holds the rank of Patrician but cannot be passed to a designated heir.

4. Baron
a. Baron is a title that holds the rank of Equestrian and can be passed to a designated heir.

5. Thane
a. Thane is a title that holds the rank of Equestrian but cannot be passed to a designated heir.

6. Count
a. Count is a title that holds the rank of Civitas and can be passed to a designated heir.

7. Jarl
a. A Jarl is a title that holds the rank of Civitas but cannot be passed to a designated heir.

D shall be created:

Granting and Revoking titles
1. Granting Titles.
a. Only the Kaiser may grant a title of Patrician rank.
b. The Landsraad may bestow a title of rank up to that of Equestian.

2. Revoking Titles
a. Only the Kaiser may revoke a title of Patrician rank.
b. The Landsraad may revoke a title of rank up to that of Equestian.

E shall be created

E. Powers and Restrictions

1. Powers
a. A Noble has complete power to do whatever zie wishes within zir fief, within zir restrictions.
b. Any Noble may place restrictions upon nobles of lesser rank within zir fief.
c. All Noble are members of the Landsraad, with the privileges and duties enumerated in the Procedures of the Landsraad.
d. A Noble may relinquish all or some of zir powers to the internal institutions or individuals of zir fief. Should a duke remove powers in so far as to not be able to regain them through those powers remaining, only the Kaiser may reinstate the relinquished powers, unilaterally.

2. Restrictions
a. No Noble may violate Imperial law.
b. No Noble may conduct significant foreign policy.
c. No Noble may call for the overthrow of the government.
d. No Noble may secede from Shireroth.
e. A Noble's powers affect only zir fief and those within.

All enumerations shall be corrected as needed.

I'm sure there are issues. So let's discuss this for a time first.

Could Your Niftiness please inform me of who the dukes are. If I'm not mistaken, all Dukes still have ten votes, even though there is no-one to distribute to.

I'm not completely sure who the Dukes are. I know you as head of House Tosha-Straylight are one of them. I believe Kildare and Kalir have yet to appoint heads.

And currently the old voting rules are in place. With no "Lesser Noble" titles currently bestowed to any members of these 3 houses there is noone to grant votes to under the current system.
This is the other reason I figured we oughta talk about this.

Ryan, though Head of House Annexis will not get to speak here until we craft new procedures.

In that case, for the purposes of voting on this bill, the heads of Houses Tosha-Straylight, Kildare and Kalir will have ten votes each. I request that when the missing heads are appointed they post here to make their presence known.

As I have seen You, Andreas and Ric are currently either Duke or acting Dukes.

Fine. I invite the Dukes to discuss this.

Now they can actually post here.

I'm able to post now. I won't have time to give this proper thought till Friday, though (Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday are my big uni days, with little time for micronationalism).

I am kind of confused of the difference between the patron/matron of a house and the noble of a house... Could someone please clarify?

They are the same. Head/Noble/Patron. Each are appropriate terms. Kalir uses Patron/Matron. For the lawbook I use the term Noble as a general term. I use Head on the forums, because in the case of House Mortis, we are not noble. We do not have Minor or Major house status. I use Noble here instead of Head, because we are talking about titles, and thus Noble is the correct term, as non-nobles have no title of Noble Rank.

Questions/Comments:

Is A.1.b really necessary? You keep telling me these are OOC roles, not IC; and A.1.b only seems necessary IC (or as an excuse for oppressing a certain group by using a bizarre definition of 'minor' - eg "Those who come from America macronationally")

On D: Can Dukes grant titles unilaterally, or only the Landsraad as a whole?
And does the rank of Equestrian immediately grant the recipient the status of Minor House?

Otherwise, looks good.

Minor status is an old definition, not used anymore in Shireroth law. A person who was a citizen less then 2 weeks was a Minor under Shireroth law. I leave it there, cause it's up to the MiniImNat whether they bring back the law. I don't see it being used again. But that wasn't what I was up to here.

Duke's may no longer grant titles unilaterally, to prevent bloat and for other reasons.

I'll deal with Houses in another bill. But Yes, it would grant Minor House status automatically.

The bill just needs minor cleaning, like removing double periods and some "then-than" mistakes. But the content is good shit.

I'll go over it later, when it's not quite so AM for me..

Umm.... I went through this. I didn't find the mistakes you mentioned? Maybe you can point them out specifically, at least give me the Section/Clause reference, so I can see to them. It might just be because I wrote this that I don't see them.

Once they are fixed maybe we can bring this to vote. I have another piece of legislature to put forward, but I want to get this passed first.

Bleh, I think I've read another bill and posted here.

And I have to ask about H 1. This means that no one will be able to be both a Duke and a Baron, correct? If that is not what you intend, this section will have to be changed.

It is. Though to be honest one supersedes the other, thus there shouldn't be any issues. But you never know what weirdness might spring up.

I believe we can start voting now if there are no other issues.

As Acting Praetor I open this for vote!

House Tosha-Straylight (10) - Aye

House Kildare abstains.

Before the House of Kalir votes, I would like to ask what roles the non-inherited titles would play in society.

In the meanwhile, the House of Kalir abstains.

Such titles would/could be used to reward an individual, or house in the short term, without creating another long term member of the Landsraad. Perhaps a Kaiser wishes to reward a small house for the great efforts of it's leader, but is maybe unsure of who might come later. Or, perhaps a person has no house. It's just another option. It helps create a gradient for rewards and titles. Maybe I want to reward someone, but I'm not 100% sure about them. Maybe I grant them a non-hereditary title. Maybe I want to reward a house, but as before, not completely sure about them. Call it a trial membership of sorts, or temporary reward.

Houses A-D may be large and spent long earning their titles. House E comes along in a short time impresses the Kaiser. A-D may be upset if E is instantly brought to their level, so we give E a non-hereditary title, later we can upgrade it, or leave it stand. I just desire to keep as many options open in this system as possible.

In the old system it was very, all or nothing.

Jonas, you have abstained, while your right, I am curious as to your reasons. Is there a way to make this bill more palatable for you?

The House of Kalir changes its vote to "aye".

Vote Currently Stands 2-0-1 In support. 1 abstain.

Kaiser Mors VI wrote: Jonas, you have abstained, while your right, I am curious as to your reasons. Is there a way to make this bill more palatable for you?

Several reasons, Your Niftiness.
I haven't had the time to read it through decently. And I don't want to vote against it, as it looks good in general, but the same time there are 'elements' in my House who don't like those reforms (in general), it's my way to avoid that I block the passing of this law, and I haven't fully ignored the wishes of 'my' House members.

I can respect that. I figured it was something like that.

This bill passes 2-0-1.

I'll make the changes... shortly.