Noble Titles Nomenclature Act of 3974

[Shyriath]

Be it enacted by the Landsraad of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth that the Lawbook, Chapter III.C, be amended as follows:

from

1. Lands
a. Titles may have lands associated with them, held in fief.
b. These lands will pass with the title, to an heir, if the title itself can be inherited.
2. Duke
a. Duke is a title that holds the rank of Patrician and can be passed to a designated heir.
3. Margrave
a. Margrave is a title that holds the rank of Patrician but cannot be passed to a designated heir.
4. Baron
a. Baron is a title that holds the rank of Equestrian and can be passed to a designated heir.
5. Thane
a. Thane is a title that holds the rank of Equestrian but cannot be passed to a designated heir.
6. Count
a. Count is a title that holds the rank of Civitas and can be passed to a designated heir.
7. Jarl
a. A Jarl is a title that holds the rank of Civitas but cannot be passed to a designated heir.

to

1. Lands
a. Titles may have lands associated with them, held in fief.
b. These lands will pass with the title, to an heir, if the title itself can be inherited.
2. Patrician Titles
a. A noble of the Patrician rank whose title can be passed to a designated heir shall be known as a Duke.
b. A noble of the Patrician rank whose title cannot be passed to a designated heir shall be known as a Duke-Palatine.
3. Equestrian Titles
a. A noble of the Equestrian rank whose title can be passed to a designated heir shall be known as a Baron.
b. A noble of the Equestrian rank whose title cannot be passed to a designated heir shall be known as a Baron-Palatine.
4. Civitas Titles
a. A noble of the Civitas rank whose title can be passed to a designated heir shall be known as a Thane.
b. A noble of the Civitas rank whose title cannot be passed to a designated heir shall be known as a Thane-Palatine.

[Shyriath]

Other than the actual idea of changing the title names, there didn't seem to be much objection to the form of the bill at the Front Gate, so here 'tis.

[Erik Mortis]

Mortis, NAY (5).

I still object, if nothing else, to the names. They aren't very appealing to me. Blah-Palatine. meh... I prefer we stay with what we have. I see no issue with them. We came to them as a community. I recall getting everyone's input on them. So now suddenly Scott demands they be changed. I haven't heard any objections to the names since we instated them, so if this just Scott wanting to change things for the sake of change?

[Malliki Tosha]

This frees up Count so we can use it instead of Governor.

[Kaiser Ikol II]

Stop saying that "for the sake of change" thing all the time. It's become your standard insult when you don't like something.

The current system confuses noble titles from a bunch of different cultures, has them all out of their real-meaning order, and has lots of titles that are equal to each other without any indication in the names. It has Counts who are unrelated to Counties. It's basically randomly choosing a bunch of noble titles from here and there and assigning them to the six possible levels at random; complete informational entropy.

This proposal will straighten that out. Three basic titles that most people have heard of, and that anyone familiar with nobility can easily rank from highest to lowest even if they don't know Shireroth's system, plus a single word that consistently indicates non-hereditary status.

This isn't change for the sake of change, it's change for the sake of making things better.

I urge all Landsraad members to vote "yes" on this bill.

[Malliki Tosha]

Perhaps "Duke - Earl - Baron" would be better if we wanted a system that everyone will intuitively understand.

[Erik Mortis]

Mike, we can change count out for something else, without changing all the titles.

[Malliki Tosha]

I happen to agree with Scott, you know. Six different titles is a bit confusing.

[Erik Mortis]

Well. then I'm outvotes and I lose. I'll go find something else to work on.

[Falkner van der Sluijs]

Asantelian NAY (1)

I'm with Erik on this one, actually. [blank]-Palatine sounds silly, I like the 6 different titles better. If you want to free up count, just find something else to replace it.

[Andreas the Wise]

For Kildare, I vote AYE (5), unless I hear any major objections from the Seanad. I think the Kildarians are in general keen to get the Count title back for Counties.

[Malliki Tosha]

It appears that the count palatine title was hereditary from the 12th century onwards, but not earlier. That is hardly intuitive. I don't really support the current set of titles anymore either. Margrave, for instance, was a hereditary title, but not here. It's confusing.

[Jacobus Loki]

Hallucination, (2) Aye.

I'm not thrilled with the names, but it's an improvement.

[Malliki Tosha]

Jake, you have one (1) vote, not two (2). You're a Jarl, not a Thane or a Baron.

I'm on the fence about this. Could the Praetor please inform the Landsraad about when this vote closes?

[Erik Mortis]

June 27th.

[Malliki Tosha]

Ah okay. Then I have more than enough time to make up my mind.

[Kaiser Ikol II]

I am pretty disappointed that this bill has (if I calculate right) failed on virtue of being tied when the time limit ran out, especially since a lot of people who seemed interested before didn't vote.

Don't make me start ruling by decree

[Malliki Tosha]

I was going to abstain, but that doesn't matter now. I just don't like the alternative. Thane sounds stupid and so does Palatine.

[Kaiser Ikol II]

I'm not attached to Palatine, just to there being a word like "Palatine" that goes at the end (or beginning) of a title to mean non-hereditary. Give me a better one and I'll use it.

[Malliki Tosha]

I will propose a bill here that addresses the problems.

[Kaiser Ikol II]

Thanks.